To those who visit the board and believe in gender identity, what is your solution?

Again -- deflection.

The law requires a definition.

If you're going to change the definition of "woman" in law, you must provide the new definition.

Is the new definition to be: adult human female and males who state they are an adult human female?

Or is to be something else?

I'm not the one obfuscating here. I'm also not the one who wants the law changed. You do. So state the new definition.

If trans women presented as women then they would, as they have always done, used the womens loos. We don't run chromosome tests for use of the loo and turn away xy. The problem for me is men looking like men entering these spaces and using self id and transphobia to muscle their way in there. Gender neutral toilets, and single sex toilets is a great solution but one trans people don't want.

With other spaces, such as red tents, I don't know why they can't make their own blue tent, or pink glitter tent or whatever. Why do they need to take over someone else's space

What makes you think trans women are safe from men who pretend to be women so they can assault someone?

There isn't a solution to the problem where everyone will be happy.

Trans people don't want separate loos. Creating a space for them means we are excluding them in their eyes. They want our space. Being excluded makes trans people suicidal apparently, the same reason why 10 year olds should be given puberty blockers.

I don't understand why they can't be happy with a new space created for them. 🤷‍♀️ I'm not bothered about someone who looks like a woman using a loo next to me, what I am bothered about is the safe guarding challenge when men who look like men, self id for their own perversion. It doesnt matter how many times someone says this won't happen, it is happening and it's not fair. Our sense of unfair doesnt compare to theirs..

I think there's some parallels in the argument, I know people won't agree with me though and that's fine.*

There are huge parallels between gender ideology and religion hence why i think GI should be considered a belief esp with self-ID where no medical diagnoses is req

You don't want definitions. You want to obscure the matter. One definition leads to a demand for another and another and another

Yep!

I agree. There are plenty of people who feel that homosexuality impinges on their lives by its very existence.

Cherry pick comments away and ignore those who are debating in order to smear. Gaslighting at its finest

I'm not ignoring those who actually debate, there's some on the thread who are discussing.
I'm on about the ones of which there are some who just post images and piss take instead of engage.

You don't want definitions. You want to obscure the matter. One definition leads to a demand for another and another and another.

not protected as feelings, that is. Protected as practices.

The problem is that people who are gay and people that are religious don't try to make me collude in their belief

Hmm, I dunno -
I mean, aren't there a lot of homophobic people out there?
Who say that their way is un-natural (NOT my view btw, just saying!), and actively say their children shouldn't be exposed to gay relationships?
They're of the belief that men and women only together family wise, and campaign against it and in some cases/countries pass laws to discriminate.
With trans, isn't it a case of some people (not all) thinking children shouldn't know about trans, that it's un-natural, there's only man and woman and that's it?

I think there's some parallels in the argument, I know people won't agree with me though and that's fine.

Homosexuality and religion are not feelings. They are practices.

A legal term requires a definition.

Still waiting, despite imprecation and deflection: what is your proposed replacement of the current definition of "woman" under law?
Again, the meaning of the word "definition" is the "formal meaning of the word" which is not "what it feels like to be the word."

If you want legal change, you have to be able to articulate it in words. Grown-ups very definitely understand that.

"But homosexuality and religion are based on feelings ...."

Except if you try to claim one or the other when applying for asylum etc, you have to provide some proof, that your claim is serious. So, claiming to be a muslim, say, whilst knowing nothing about the koran, and still attending the local baptist church every sunday, and planning to get married there next week, might be seen as not totally consistent. Similarly, if someone claimed to be a lesbian, but was currently dating and sleeping with a male, you might wonder. The facts of someone homosexuality, BTW, could be established, by testing what someone was or wasn't sexually aroused by (as too many gay men know to their cost when the standard treatment was show them pictures of naked men and give them electric shocks when they get aroused).

But this isn't really the point, as long as you allow religious groups to restrict entry to places of worship as they see fit (you can't come in, you worship next door with the baptists, we've seen you!), or allow groups to say 'sorry, you can't bring you boyfriend with you to the lesbian social'. If someone wants to call themselves a lesbian or a muslim, when others consider by their behaviour they do not qualify, that is fine. We are not required to believe whatever someone else says about themselves, when their actions contradict what they say. We are allowed to have our own opinion!

Yet when someones biology contradicts what someone says, we are supposedly not allowed to disagree. And surely the grounds for making distinctions in the latter case is stronger than just behaviour, especially given that it is actually rather important to keep stating that womanhood is not defined by what you wear, how you act etc, but by your biology.

There is no secret 'essence of lesbian', it's just you fancy women and not men, simples. Yet there is supposedly some secret 'essence of woman'...........

Incapable of proper discussion.
Playground.

Cherry pick comments away and ignore those who are debating in order to smear. Gaslighting at its finest.

To say that you can feel like a woman and therefore so can a man and so they are entitled to the same rights/ requirements as women is not only offensive and illogical, it's down right sexist.

Society needs to stop defining biology by shallow stereotypes.

Ah, I was wondering how long it would be before the insults were rolled out. Now we don't just have a different viewpoint. We're idiots for not agreeing with you.

Yep, telling which so called "side" just can't help themselves, isn't it?
Not interested at all in listening to anything else.

Feelings are real, just because some people feel differently to you, it does not make their feelings less real or authentic for them

The problem is that people who are gay and people that are religious don't try to make me collude in their belief. I can possibly get my head around that someone may prefer to have been born the opposite sex and want to 'present' (whatever that means) as the opposite sex. But to demand that we all believe they are the opposite sex and that we have to be re-educated to believe it or face being dismissed from work or a criminal record is just a step too far.
The problem stems back to the GRA where legal fictions were allowed. A third way is the only way imo. Transwomen are transwomen not women - and that should be reflected on legal documents such as passports.
But the problem is that that doesn't validate transwomens' feelings.
That is why a third way or discussion or some sort of accommodation won't work. It doesn't matter that some women are happy to accept transwomen in their spaces - most are not and sex based rights have to trump feelings. For transpeople it is all or nothing regardless of who is trampled on.
And I cannot subscribe to that at all.

Once again, this thread was a total setup to lure people to give an opinion and then pile on them when it is different to yours. You're acting like a bunch of twatty teenagers with your shady digs and belittling other opinions. Let's post pictures of essence of women to belittle someone's perspective. If you're going to call yourself 'adult human females' fucking grow up then.

Yep, well said, that poster
right on cue like I said it would lol
Think some are 5 years old on this forum.
This must be what it means by no debate.
There literally isn't one.
Incapable of proper discussion.
Playground.

It is not objectively silly. It's an entirely subjective opinion whether someone's description of their life experience is silly or not and you are not wise to mistake your personal opinions for absolute facts.

And now define the word "punish.
And please define the words "risk management

No thank you

No, you’re not idiots for not agreeing with me. Unlike some, I don’t evaluate everything with reference to myself. Statements re essences etc are mocked because they are objectively silly. And it is right that they should be. If we give every crazy notion people on the internet spout intellectual houseroom we will all go mad.

It’s a medical diagnosis in ICD11. Isn’t that a bit like saying why can’t schizophrenia or depression be a belief?

Not with self-ID its not

We don't force beliefs on others.

We don't force people to church. Or to believe in a god/s.

So why are we being forced to believe in gender ideology or face being arrested, losing our jobs... because this has happened to women who dont believe!

Ah, I was wondering how long it would be before the insults were rolled out. Now we don't just have a different viewpoint. We're idiots for not agreeing with you.