Old lady.... why is this still an acceptable insult

That thread is so depressing, but sadly, not surprising.

My goodness- yes that certainly shows there are MN members who have no problem with being ageist.

This is an example ageist shite that is trotted out on MN,no wonder 'old' is used as an insult when people actually believe this bollox-

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3655640-To-curb-my-parents-chat-under-their-roof?watched=1&msgid=89048764#89048764

Again, for me anyway, it's recognising the difference between making a valid discrimination or acknowledgement where age is a factor and applying ill-informed, blanket stereotyping and casual insults.

Almost all of us will have physical limitations because of age; some of us, but by no means all, will have cognitive issues- a very tiny proportion of us will be lucky enough to be like the 2 D-Day veterans Harry Read, 96, and John Hutton, 94, who commemorated the 75th anniversary of theNormandylandings by parachuting on to a Normandy beach. Treat every one respect- age should only be relevant, if it is actually relevant.

The casual ageism on MN is pretty dreadful- often on threads where posters are pontificating about how anti- racist/ anti- sexist they are.

As if it's all about preserving their youthful way of life. Which, to me, is not the aim at all.

Exactly. The way advertisers target older people is full of ageist assumptions. In the US, the ads for retirement facilities/sheltered accommodation are full of images of fit-looking older people playing tennis, swimming, and otherwise appearing "youthful." As I have aged, I can no longer do any of these things well, and I don't want to live somewhere that promotes these as the definition of living well in old age or that might consider me diminished because I'd rather sit in a rocking chair and read.

🏴‍☠️

Dangly you've killed the thread.

Dangly flaunt your age with pride, and don't let the punters patronize you!

flo as a tired old lady I see it as a doff of the cap! Nice for you to have the energy.

“joyless thought police.”

Is up there with lazy cliches too. And pretty mindless.

You are correct of course - cliches are always lazy.

Crusade is a bit lazy too.

I'm from a culture which reveres and respects the old, and every one of the women who have been the most influential in my life, and whom I most revere, have been over 80, so I've never seen "old" as negative, but I do observe it being used as negative in Western society, and the attitudes that go along with that. It's a pity.

And even when people make the effort to NOT be ageist, it's always by comparing old people to young, such as videos of old men dancing wildly, or old women wearing wildly eccentric clothes or extravagant makeup, and applauding, and saying, "this is how I want to grow old"! As if it's all about preserving their youthful way of life. Which, to me, is not the aim at all.

I know that not all old people are wise, but I think that's what we should strive for: to learn the lessons that life with all its changes and vicissitudes brings us, so as to be able to be respected when we are old.
But it's a vicious circle. I see lots of old people, women especially, fearing old age desperately and trying to imitate the young, and that's when, I believe, they lose respect. We worship youth in Western society, which has led to a certain haughtiness on the part of young people, and automatic dismissal of anyone over 50. Or even over 40.

So just lazy cliches? Not the non-lazy cliches, which take more effort? Good luck with your crusade.

Protest is not policing.
Of course people have the right to be rude and use lazy cliches if it brings them joy (and assuming they’re within board guidelines).
And other people have the right to object and ask why they do it.

Quite.

There are many valid reasons why someone cannot become a bus driver - eyesight, physical ability, mental capacity. Some of these factors may be impaired with age in some people to greater or lesser extents. You may be able to say that statistically more 30 year olds would be able to drive a bus than 70 year olds - but you can't deduce from that whether a specific 30 year old or 70 year old is competent.

do think that actualageismdoes have a place (and I am by no means young!)

Should medical operations be age blind, even if the patient has dementia? Should companies be obliged to retain workers in their 80s? In the US, where in some states this is law, this has led to litigation on both sides regarding bus drivers. Should higher education student loans be available to someone aged 75? Should someone be able to start medical school at that age?

You are confusing valid discrimination based on physical attributes and ability with the application of unthinking blanket stereotypes.

If I write a description of a person walking doesn't the hall in a hospital gown, and say that they are hobbling or bent like an elderly person, with a small of stale wee - is that an ageist description?

Yes it is. "Like and elderly person" adds nothing to the description of describing a person "hobbling" or "bent over"

"Smells of stale wee" is pure ageism.

BTW I've noticed Mumsnetters will insult all and sundry, so references to old people doesn't particularly make me sob into my cocoa.

Life lesson...shrug and move on.

Goosefoot I'm an old lady and I am happy to refer to myself as such.

Thanks for your thoughtful posts, I can see your point of view. Personally, I would like to retain the right to be ageist about my contemporaries, and not have my vocabulary policed by our joyless thought police.

“But are those the only kinds of instances people make those kinds of comparative observations or descriptions?”
My offer of a tenner to Age Conxern if you can find an example on Mumsnet of “old” being anything but a negative descriptor still stands. Posters know that if they say an old woman, or an old biddy did something they will automatically get unquestioning support. Particularly if it happens on a bus.

What exactly is enriching or literary about using ‘old lady’ as shorthand for:

But are those the only kinds of instances people make those kinds of comparative observations or descriptions?

If I write a description of a person walking doesn't the hall in a hospital gown, and say that they are hobbling or bent like an elderly person, with a small of stale wee - is that an ageist description? I would say it's somewhat unpleasant, but that's kind of the point. We know old age can look that way, that it can be unpleasant.

Hmmmm, although I agree that ageist slurs are unwelcome, I do think that actual ageism does have a place (and I am by no means young!).

Should medical operations be age blind, even if the patient has dementia? Should companies be obliged to retain workers in their 80s? In the US, where in some states this is law, this has led to litigation on both sides regarding bus drivers. Should higher education student loans be available to someone aged 75? Should someone be able to start medical school at that age?

I do report posts that contain ageist slurs: "old biddy, old bag", etc and most have been addressed by MNHQ. Of course, it was necessary to mention that they had a reference in one of their publications to "old biddies on the bus." They did acknowledge that was inappropriate, and said it would not be repeated.

Ageist language is a very serious matter, even without outright slurs. Marginalization of older people creates and supports conditions and attitudes that foster elder abuse. Ageist attitudes and society's tolerance of them contribute to elder abuse, just as devaluation of women underpins violence against women. One of the reasons that language is so important is that words that devalue elders, especially women, reinforce the notion that they are "other" and lesser. These notions play heavily in elder abuse scenarios