This is a good thread about female trans allies

Yes, I do believe that human beings have souls

Okay, that maybe goes some way to explaining why we are likely to end at an impasse.

I have not one scintilla of this belief, I do not and never will share it. I can't prove there is no such thing as a soul; you can't prove their existence.

So, we have to agree to respect each others' views. And not impinge on each others' rights, nor try to force those views on each other.

I, as a natal female, will not interfere with transwomen living their lives, and they don't interfere with my rights to single sex spaces. Tickety boo.

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm trying to read the Scottish unregulated capture thread.
And so should you.

^^^^ thank you

That article I posted was about healthy people identifying as amputees and getting limbs actually chopped off.
Do you think that should be available on the nhs, petrol? Genuine question.

Because I think it will be useful for you to try to imagine how other people feel.

Why? In this particular instance. What would that change? I still would not think males should compete against females in sport, change with us, use the same toilets or be eligible for women’s roles in politics etc my priority would still be women. How do you know I haven’t thought of how they might feel? I have known transsexual people most of my life as it happens. My empathy does not equate to my denial of my own lived experience or dismissal of my own discomfort or fears.

There are 500 posts on here Roses and you are focused on one post in which the poster actually said she wouldn't say those things, if I remember rightly

She thinks them though. Some others on here must do as well as noone's questioned it.
Plus a complete dodge and another call to define from one, rather than actually saying whether it's OK to pull down other women and that they can't think for themselves.

Isuspect strongly that the reason you won't answer is because you know you would still feel like a woman even in a man's body

But it doesn’t matter does it because it won’t ever happen

And what does a woman feel like?

Maybe it's just me but I don't get why it's OK to pull other women, call them names, belittle them if they aren't thinking right.

Absolutely. It's fucking wrong to call women who want sex segregated places, names. I'm glad you agree.

Is all the transcat stuff your way of telling us you believe in reincarnation?

But nobody ‘stuck a dick’ on a trans person.

How is imagining something that has never happened to anyone ever going to make us understand how trans people feel?

I can try and understand how trans people feel by trying to understand how it feels to be dysphoric about my own body, which is not difficult to imagine at all.

What's the point? Well I suspect strongly that the reason you won't answer is because you know you would still feel like a woman even in a man's body. I suspect you won't confirm that because it undermines your argument.

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm trying to read the Scottish unregulated capture thread.
And so should you.

A very important read.

I don’t understand how asking women who are overall happy (or at least have come to terms with) with the body they live in would feel if that changed magically overnight relates to people who are unhappy in the body they have grown up with wishing to undergo surgery (or wake up in a body that is different).

I would not like to wake up tomorrow in possession of a penis, but neither would I be cool with waking up with a different hair colour, or height, or body shape (unless that body has a six pack and killer biceps).

Maybe it's just me but I don't get why it's OK to pull other women, call them names, belittle them if they aren't thinking right.
Patriarchy must have made em do it type thing.
No. Women are INDIVIDUALS. With their own minds. Not children, don't know any better bless em

Petrol - no you're not.

Yes, I do believe that human beings have souls. I'm certainly not alone in believing that either

That’s fine, and....?

Yes, I do believe that human beings have souls. I'm certainly not alone in believing that either.

Yes, I want you to imagine something that can't happen

But what’s the point? How can it help since it can’t happen?

I don’t yearn for another body (apart from The Rock’s). But is that maybe what you mean?

It's so weird.

Agree.

I'm pretty sure feminism isn't propagating the idea that women are inherently naive and obsessed with their physical appearance. And yes, I'm pretty sure calling each other cows ain't it either, chief.

Lol

What is it then?

Why are you asking me to define feminism?
Why can't you just answer the question?
It's so weird.

Yes, I want you to imagine something that can't happen. Because I think it will be useful for you to try to imagine how other people feel.

Not just a different body, a different sex. You’re asking us to imagine something that can’t happen, for the purpose of what?

Because people keep saying to try and explain.
So they are.
That's why it's been said on the thread.
I don't get why people can't grasp this

how would you feel if you were in a different body has been neatly avoided.

Because it’s bobbins and can’t happen, so what’s the point?

I'm not sure nationalities are a good comparison. It is possible to change nationality. It isn't possible to change sex.Your sex isn't something you 'identify as' it is something you are, and would be even if you were severely disabled and unable to verbalise at all.

You can, to a point. In so much as we've abstracted it to be a bit of paper. But can you really take a Frenchman and make him something else, or will he always, in a sense, be a Frenchman?

Your sex is what you are, but we all I think take on certain kinds of awareness and looking at ourselves in a certain way, our sense of belonging to a particular group. If you have a sense of solidarity with other women, that's something different than just having a sexed body, for example.

We seem to have a significant capacity for creating identity with all kinds of different groups, based on biology or other things.

I think this is a capacity that's become a little weird in recent years, so maybe that feeds into this idea that a change in our sense of identity should mean we recognise some more basic change.