Booking an abortion and asked if I identified as male or female

*Articulate (not ‘article’)

I am finding it hard to article why but I do find it offensive that this is being asked routinely. I think patients who want certain names and pronouns to be used, can ask for that use, actively themselves. They are adults. Why isn’t that acceptable to do? All health care professionals get special requests all the time, they are happy to accommodate them wherever they can, this is a straightforward request regarding language to be used, so why is this one issue being elevated to be every woman’s concern?

I just don’t think that it’s appropriate that when every woman is being booked in, that every woman should be asked what they identify as. It’s a very stressful time for a lot of women in the run up to an abortion, and it should be made as simple and fuss free for the majority as possible to do. also for important reasons of trust and comfort women should feel that their abortion provider is on the same page as them ethos-wise. This question could create the opposite effect for a lot of women.

Secondly on a principle level, given that for generations women died, were permanently or temporarily injured, left their children motherless, committed suicide, committed infanticide, were thrown out of home, lost jobs, got into debt, had babies they didn’t want and weren’t able to look after, and much worse... and so on and so on... because safe and legal abortion was unavailable to them, a huge biologically inescapable burden that men just didn’t have to factor in, it kind of feels quite insulting- given that horrific or fatal burden for so many women and children- that the feelings of a small number of people are now to be privileged such that everyone has to pay their issues attention upfront in this way.

It feels like empty virtue signalling on the part of the service provider and feels particularly insulting to women in this particular medical and historical context of the very very hard-won right to an abortion.

I agree that it's daft to be 'offended' by this question per se but I don't think that's what posters mean. I think they are irritated by the general move to change language, policy and practice to claim that sex can change just by saying it can- this is just one example. This is not a neutral change, it has huge implications.

Absolutely. My objection to this had nothing to do with being offended, or with hurt feelings. My feelings don't get hurt by ridiculous things like this.
I am though absolutely disgusted by the unnecessary infiltration of trans ideology in our everyday lives. It's insidious and if we allow little things like this to take root the consequences will be awful. We need to protest wherever we can, even if on surface level it seems ridiculous and we can just laugh it off as absurd. Not because we are offended (I think we should avoid that word so as not to end up in the hurty-feels camp) but because we have a realistic outlook. Which in this case is that only women need abortions, and gender identity is irrelevant.

I fear in the future everyone will have to self identify

At least that would be honest and fair, if the govt etc made it clear that was what was required of people. There would need to be a proper information campaign explaining gender identities, and "cis" and listing options. Data gathering and service planning would become even more complicated but at least it gives everyone a fair crack at choosing their own identity, not just young people and middle aged men.

There already needs to be an honest information campaign about services and spaces being segregated by gender identity and not sex as is presumed by most. Currently facts are obscured people are not able to exercise informed consent about who they share spaces with.

Isn't it interesting how the trans lobby don't push for this. Instead they only recruit young people in schools.

This ideology relies on a huge and historically marginalised group of people to take on the identity of "cis woman", largely without their consent; their oppression rendered invisible under the false hierarchy of cis and trans.

I blame the Elsa dress phase.
I fear in the future everyone will have to self identify, DD spouts nonsense about sex or gender no longer being important, acceptance is important she's 11 it is crazy.

It’s one fucking question. Hardly a major imposition, is it.

Actually I think it is an imposition on a woman needing an abortion. The narcissism of this cult is unbearable

Being upset at being asked this kind of question is trivial. Nobody minds being asked their ethnicity, or their marital status, or whether they are homosexual

I agree that it's daft to be 'offended' by this question per se but I don't think that's what posters mean. I think they are irritated by the general move to change language, policy and practice to claim that sex can change just by saying it can- this is just one example. This is not a neutral change, it has huge implications.

I think it's OK for women to be angered by a movement which is eroding their rights.

FFS. If it's relevant or important, I'm sure the patient will bring it up if it isn't fucking obvious.

I don't see why a probably stressful phone call should be made any more awkward for the HUGE majority of women who have called to seek help.

OTOH "How would you like to be addressed?" is courteous and kind, and covers every possibility, from Elizabeth to Lizzy to Mrs Jones to Bob to he/him

Agree, although I don't want to be addressed as either he or him. You will suffice.

Being upset at being asked this kind of question is trivial. Nobody minds being asked their ethnicity, or their marital status, or whether they are homosexual, but how very dare they suggest you might be trans?

I would be very offended to be asked any of these things if it wasn't relevant, and it very rarely is.

If you are going to use words like 'fucking', I think you need to accept that some people find the concept of identifying as a particular gender fucking offensive.

I would also be fucking offended to be referred to in the third person at a medical appointment.

Entirely agree, Fallingirl.

OTOH "How would you like to be addressed?" is courteous and kind, and covers every possibility, from Elizabeth to Lizzy to Mrs Jones to Bob to he/him.

What really annoys me is that, on a regular basis, people make incorrect assumptions about me and address me accordingly. The single mums I know are often called “Mrs (child’s surname)”, and since I was a child I’ve seen documents where everything refers to Mr. or he / him. My name is unisex and people often assume I’m Male when writing / emailing.

I’ve never once gotten offended, I just correct them. I don’t expect everything in the world to be perfectly tailored to my individual circumstances automatically.

If I started to identify as Male, I’d be prepared for the fact that gynae clinics would assume I was female and I would raise it, if I cared.

I have to laugh at how objecting to the question is making a fuss and even frothy but objecting to incorrect pronouns is righteous. The ideology in a nutshell.

Because you don’t agree with it, everybody has to live your way?

Because @ 0.1% of the population has become caught up in this ever expanding delusion, the other 99% has to live their way? It’s starting to sound like the second reformation.

Because you don’t agree with it, everybody has to live your way?

Yabbers: everybody except for a .01% does live this way. Male/female, man/woman is the default. We shouldn't even be discussing this. Only females need abortions. Someone who is trans and is offended by that reality needs to adapt, not the 99% adapt to them and their offended feelings. As said above, people can be asked how they'd liked to be addressed. Done.

Being unable to accept empirical reality is a mental health issue and such people should deal with that, and not expect patronising so as to protect their feelings.

I don't care one bit how a person identifies, and it is irrelevant to the person undertaking the abortion. Get real. It DOESN'T MATTER.

What is your weight?
Thank you. And now, what weight do you identify as?
What medications are you currently taking?
Good. But which do you identify as being on?
What sex are you?
Lovely. And which sex do you identify as?

We need to stop accommodating the 'identification as' movement as if it is anything other than delusion.

It helps no-one to play along and humour people as if it's not completely delusional to 'identify as' something other than material reality. It doesn't help the individual trying to be something they're not, and it doesn't help the rest of us hanging on to reality and trying to resist the insidious creep of 'its' kind for us all to pretend'.

That firm and honest pushback should start in female only services like Marie Stopes.

They neglect the possibility as they live a male life where cervical screening isn't necessary.

You know how we keep arguing that one cannot change sex and that thinking otherwise is harmful self-delusion? This is a prime example of what we.mean by harmful self-delusion. Telling oneself that, as a transman, one doesn't need a cervical screen is HARMFUL and ignores reality.

• If someone thinks they are fat when in fact they are underweight, you.don't affirm, you contradict and suggest that they attend an anorexia clinic. Affirming the delusion would be irresponsible.
• If someone thinks they can fly and wants to jump off the roof to demonstrate, you discourage and call the ambulance. Affirming the delusion would be irresponsible.
• If someone thinks they can change sex from female to male and didn't need cervical screening after the "change", you SHOULD contradict them and encourage them to seek help with their self-perception and encourage them to attend smear tests. Affirming the delusion of sex chsnge would be irresponsible. What we actually do is affirm and then wonder why transmen get cervical cancer.

History will judge us badly for harming transmen in this way.

DH is booked in for a vasectomy at Marie Stopes and was asked the same question when he made the appointment. He was just bemused but I would have been so pissed off to be asked in a similar situation to OP

Another more relevant question is 'are you breastfeeding' - it's not uncommon for a woman to present for an abortion still breastfeeding a child - and that impacts on sedation/anaesthesia options.

But they don't ask that, because they cover that in the forms you fill out when you get there.

Every single person presenting for an abortion is female. IMO if the female making the appointment anticipates issues due to their gender presentation, they can raise that with the intake person initially.

It's the trans persons responsibility to be honest about any cross sex hormones they are taking, or any other 'gender' related issues that may affect their medical care.

They are not 'special' females; they are just females like the rest of us, with the same rights (to obtain medical care, safety and to be treated with respect during the process) and responsibilities (be sure this is what you need, co-operate with medical staff, respect staff and other patients, be clear and honest in your communication with medical staff) as the rest of us.

It's fucking hard to rock up and have a termination for many females, regardless of gender identity. What about women with kids and no or limited childcare ? Anyone fussing about them and their access ? No, thought not.

That's a good point wacademia.

It would also be useful for MS to know if the patient is disabled

And in fact there's a stronger argument to ask about disability than gender identity, because there are a lot more disabled people than trans people.

Well I think it’s probably helpful for Marie Stopes to know if they will have a trans man coming in

It would also be useful for MS to know if the patient is disabled, e.g. to make access arrangements or accommodate an assistance dog, but they don't ask. The disabled person has to volunteer that information. Are MS supposed to ask questions about all nine protected characteristics of the Equality Act 2010? That's a LOT of questions.

Yet another instance of the Most Oppressed Minority(tm) being pandered to in a way that the other eight protected groups of the Equality Act aren't.

for OP

If you are pregnant you are female. If you believe in gender ideology and id as a man and wish to make the clinic aware of that fact thats up to you. Asking every caller if they identify as male or female is ridiculous and offensive considering the circumstances.

By asking full name, title and what medication they are on it should become clear if someone is trans. Then if it seems like a possibility ask if they identify as male or female.

Only females need abortions. Only females are still denied the legal right to abortion in some parts of the UK. Anything that turns a fundamental women's rights issue into a 'gender neutral' one is offensive.

^ this absolutely