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Original poster

Are feminists getting played?

836 replies

Maniak · 26/07/2019 14:20

It makes me sad that feminists are spending so much time banging on about bathrooms in a world that has women still working for no pay, old women still more likely to be poor, surrogacy, underfunded maternity care, and poor support for carers. And other stuff.

Yes, the trans thing is annoying, but have you noticed how it always fires up before major elections? It's like Afghanistan in the 80s when the US provided just enough weapons to keep the war going so Russia would use all it's energy and get weak.

I feel like feminism is getting distracted with the trans stuff. At most, it should take up 10 percent of our feminist attention. But I rarely see feminism these days that isn't all about trans. Seriously. Do you think we're getting played here? Is trans really such a big deal?

OP posts:
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sakura184 · 29/07/2019 00:58

On the other hand, unmoderated discussion does silence people too

Good point. When I was doing the feminist blog circuit years ago I was surprised to see they didn't allow men to comment. I immediately said well if we want to be proponents of free speech then how can we justify blocking voices we don't like. It was argued to me compellingly, that men have the entire rest of the internet and then some, to have their voices heard.
And it was absolutely true that when there were no men in the discussion , only then could you actually have a conversation about anything. The comparison was startling. If you allowed men or anti feminists to "debate" you, the discussion got precisely nowhere.
I know I'm pretty much hated on mumsnet for bringing some of those principles here. I just think no, I give short shrift to "not all men" because everybody in the world has that opinion except a few , and I come to FWR to escape it. So for sure unmoderated comments can be just as silencing.

Also interesting is that The Transsexual Empire was written in 1979, so radical feminists have been ignored and silenced for decades. I really don't see why there's anything new to see here.

Original poster
Maniak · 29/07/2019 00:56

"Because the problem is men."

Exactly. The problem is MEN and feminism should center WOMEN. And I understand about the rules and defining "women" etc. But I'm talking about our own thoughts and attention, which we can control to some extent. Men love us to be the audience and obsess about them all day long, good or bad. Like, a little kid jumps out and we say "oh my goodness! How shocking!" And they are delighted. And a trans woman does some minor thing and we all gasp and discuss it and center it. This role that we're taking on trans is not ideal for us, in my OPINION.

OP posts:
Original poster
Maniak · 29/07/2019 00:48

"I'm not sure the OP got it. Hence the surprise when her comment was deleted. It's quite something to witness your own voice being eliminated.

On a forum for women. Run by women. Moderated by women."

Yeah I was surprised, but it wasn't really "my voice" because I just said those things (which you suggested) to test the system. I'm still not sure which part of the rules I violated. But it's not as if a deleted post about Bruce Jenner suddenly ricochets this issue to my top concern for women. I'm actually a fan of active no nonsense moderation, just put up the rules and delete the posts, and I would compromise even more if I thought it could help discussion on important issues (not Bruce Jenner) and fixing the rift in feminism.

But yeah, the censorship is also disturbing. Not my post, but broadly. And not just the deleted posts and bans but the freezing effect, and people second guessing what they can say. That is definitely bad. On the other hand, unmoderated discussion does silence people too.

OP posts:
sackrifice · 28/07/2019 23:53

Feminism is definitely trans heavy

Because the problem is men. So, do you like cats?

sakura184 · 28/07/2019 23:48

I'm not sure the OP got it. Hence the surprise when her comment was deleted. It's quite something to witness your own voice being eliminated

True.
But I also had a thread of mine deleted on here, and a ban a few weeks ago, for talking about an issue entirely unrelated to trans or pronouns or anything

Feminism is definitely trans heavy

barelove · 28/07/2019 23:36

When I've got time, I look at all the new threads on MN, no matter what they are about. When I've not got time, I only look for threads that are about how self id is affecting women lives.

This is because if self id becomes law it will affect ALL the feminist issues without exception. I don't think I'm being played, I just think I understand the gravity of this issue and realise the catastrophic effects it will have on so many things including: women still working for no pay, old women still more likely to be poor, surrogacy, underfunded maternity care, and poor support for carers.

After taking the time to read this thread OP I believe your original question Is trans really such a big deal? has been well and truly answered with a resounding YES!

deepwatersolo · 28/07/2019 23:18

It's quite something to witness your own voice being eliminated.

And witnessing your own voice being eliminated for saying something as trivial and clearly defined as 2+2=4 is yet on another level. It is high art, akin to a Kafka novel. (Is it gleeful to point that out?)

sackrifice · 28/07/2019 23:12

A forum for women. Run by women. Moderated by women.

And monitored by..OH HANG ON

Datun · 28/07/2019 23:09

I'm just saying, we do get it.

I'm not sure the OP got it. Hence the surprise when her comment was deleted. It's quite something to witness your own voice being eliminated.

On a forum for women. Run by women. Moderated by women.

barelove · 28/07/2019 23:04

Male geese can have goslings too you know..... er.... apparently

sackrifice · 28/07/2019 23:02

Do any of the geese identify as swans

Funnily enough our head honcho George the goose, turns out is actually Georgina as she turned up this spring with a fine brood of 7 goslings, and a new man goose at her side. Who knew?

barelove · 28/07/2019 23:02

Do any of the geese identify as swans?

Perhaps but seriously, can we not talk about that so much because I think there are so many more issues affecting swans that we should be talking about instead. Like aren't you just sick of the way swans are totally owned by the queen?

barelove · 28/07/2019 22:59

Oooh, lucky you sackrifice

Geese can put cats in their place. They're pretty ferocious. Knew a farmer who kept a couple in her yard instead of guard dogs.

TinselAngel · 28/07/2019 22:57

Do any of the geese identify as swans?

sackrifice · 28/07/2019 22:54

Until a cat appears

Weirdly we have no cats round our way. We have ducks, swans, geese and moorhens...i suspect the swans might scare the cats off, they are mighty. I sometimes see the odd one or two skulking around but none give us much grief.

sakura184 · 28/07/2019 22:54

So you keep saying. It's alomost as if you think everyone should give a shit about your opinion and your opinion only.

I was replying to someone who addressed me personally, explaining the issues of trans to me, personally.
As if the topic the OP raised has anything to do with people not getting the implications of trans. I'm just saying, we do get it.

deepwatersolo · 28/07/2019 22:52

Actually, thinking of it, the whole framing of the question posed by OP is totally upside down. It is like asking the victim of a stalker, whether she does not feel that she spends too much time obsessing about her stalker, instead of using her time for somthing more worthwhile.

barelove · 28/07/2019 22:52

I've got a bird in my courtyard who eats the caterpillars on my kohl rabi. It's amazing to watch

Until a cat appears

barelove · 28/07/2019 22:51

But, then birds kill butterflies and butterflies kill cabbages...

sackrifice · 28/07/2019 22:50

Cats kill birds

I've got a bird in my courtyard who eats the caterpillars on my kohl rabi. It's amazing to watch.

barelove · 28/07/2019 22:49

Cats kill birds Sad

sackrifice · 28/07/2019 22:46

I get it. So can we move on from having the issues explained to me as nauseum.

Despite all of that, I still just actually think trans doesn't merit the attention feminists give it.

So you keep saying. It's alomost as if you think everyone should give a shit about your opinion and your opinion only.

On another note, how do you feel about cats?

FloralBunting · 28/07/2019 22:39

Again sakura, no disagreement at all.

sakura184 · 28/07/2019 22:33

I think trans is a major energy drain, I think what men are doing to us via transactivism is a particularly finely tuned form of hatred.

But I also think it's great that women get radicalized via trans issues and I hope this means that the army TRAs are creating shift their attentions onto other feminist issues in the future

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 28/07/2019 22:32

tinsel

Whose side are you on Grin

lang would absolutely have fallen for that

Once she got vellum out of her system

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