Are feminists getting played?

Remember this is mumsnet. Not womansnet. A significant number of posters are parents/happily married. An extreme, 'women only at all costs' view point isn't going to sit well with everybody

Totally get that Datun. I do not expect it to sit well with everyone: what I don't expect is for the "women only at all costs" view to be silenced on a feminist board. I was called an anti feminist.

While men prowl the boards with their anti feminist shite and : don't get deleted, quite the opposite: get humored, get engaged with, debated with, taken on face value.

Jeez Sakura no one hates you. I don’t know you so how could I hate you.

I don’t even know what the Nigel thing means.

But as I said a lot of times if we can’t define what a woman is then there will be no feminism.

It will just be a pack of people talking about stuff that relates to people

Hostile reactions might well be down to those who bang on about having a class analysis spend most of their time on egocentric posts about "I" and very little of it on "we". Grandiosity has no part in class analysis.

Jus' sayin'.

That's great. I just think the "not my Nigels " have a huge voice on here. "Not my Nigel" is profoundly antifeminist, as an argument. Even if it might be true about your particular Nigel.

Well there's not a lot you can do about that. If that's your audience here, so be it.

Anyone, whatever their intention, who exhorts women here to talk about something else, will be met with deep suspicion.

Continuing to try and persuade women to change their course, will be met with hostility.

• Continuing to try and persuade women to change their course, will be met with hostility.

This site has about 15 million unique users per month. The occasional woman who takes exception to being repeatedly told what to do, isn't mumsnet hating you*

No, I started a thread about birth: I was told repeatedly my feminist opinion was not welcome. A lot of namecalling took place, not from the odd woman.

Previous to that , I started another thread , which was promptly deleted and resulted in me being banned for a week.

Nobody is trying to persuade anyone from changing their course, this thread appears to me to be social commentary.

In a short time I've been called: unintelligent, a nutter, thick, disgusting (that one was courtesy of JessicaWakefieldSV ), manhater hmm ( on a feminist forum) and many more.
That makes me feel super important, yes it does

I find it hard to have to continually explain things to you, I don’t know why you need so much help tbh. You weren’t called names, your comments were critiqued and yes, I think much of what you said on that thread was disgusting and your continued insistence on repeating yourself and attempting to tell women what they should consider important, also disgusting. That doesn’t equate to hate. This reminds me of TRA’s saying if we don’t agree with their view, we are hateful. Much of your behaviour is reminiscent of them, which is why so many regulars are deeply suspicious of you.

sakura

Remember this is mumsnet. Not womansnet. A significant number of posters are parents/happily married. An extreme, 'women only at all costs' view point isn't going to sit well with everybody.

*Many of the academic and well read feminists have left here, not prepared to be censored. So it may come across as something of a hybrid. Outraged mothers and women, new to feminism, but suddenly lifting the lid on something they didn't know was even there. Together with women who have been radical feminists for decades.

To put your mind at rest, it absolutely recruits women, they are coming in their droves to feminism and learning. It's probably the biggest push in decades*

That's great. I just think the "not my Nigels " have a huge voice on here. "Not my Nigel" is profoundly antifeminist, as an argument. Even if it might be true about your particular Nigel.

sakura

You, of all people, should realise exactly how many men come on here and try to shut women up. It happens with relentless monotony.

Anyone, whatever their intention, who exhorts women here to talk about something else, will be met with deep suspicion.

Continuing to try and persuade women to change their course, will be met with hostility.

This site has about 15 million unique users per month. The occasional woman who takes exception to being repeatedly told what to do, isn't mumsnet hating you.

Yeah. It's like, someone is controlling the conversation and what the topic is and who gets to speak. The only options are formal or informal control. Or both

When I wanted to talk about only having female attendants in birth I was NAMALTED to the absolute hilt. We got to a thousand posts before the conversation was even allowed to get to progress to what we can do for women.

I found myself having to explain over and over again why I wanted only women. Was told I was a manhater when my reasoning was scrutinized. ( I said i think men might be pornisick, was told "oh yeah I'm sure he's getting turned on by a stretched vagina". I said he probably is, I don't know why men are there). Why is a woman even having to defend her reasoning? That is what is disgusting

Somebody has delusions of grandeur. Been here a week and you think a bunch of people on a forum hate you?

Delusions of grandeur? In a short time I've been called: unintelligent, a nutter, thick, disgusting (that one was courtesy of JessicaWakefieldSV ), manhater ( on a feminist forum) and many more.
That makes me feel super important, yes it does

Many of the academic and well read feminists have left here, not prepared to be censored.

And I mourn the loss every day.

sakura

Of course you're not hated on here. And the understanding that men instantly change the dynamic of the room is not a principle that you are suddenly exposing people to. Everyone gets that. This is a public forum, anyone can post. And NAMALT always gets short shrift.

One of the reasons why people will highlight what an individual transwoman might do is because the culture of No Debate has been very successful and many people don't know what's going on. They don't understand the scope of it, don't understand how it can be leveraged, or the absolute batshittery of a lot of the ideology.

This forum is called mumsnet and very many women, a significant amount, come to this on the back of the transing of children.

The idea that unstudied, unregulated medication is being administered to vulnerable children, with unknown side-effects is horrendous. People like Jazz Jennings, who is permanently sterile, medicated for ever, has no sex life, and has been through horrendous surgical procedures and clearly has the outlook of a child, is frightening for women whose children are soaked in queer theory and are very, very susceptible.

And it's not just about feminism. Many of them aren't feminists. They come to this particular board, to find out what's going on, to learn. And sometimes, highlighting the nuttiness of individuals, illuminates the problem far more than just talking.

Many of the academic and well read feminists have left here, not prepared to be censored. So it may come across as something of a hybrid. Outraged mothers and women, new to feminism, but suddenly lifting the lid on something they didn't know was even there. Together with women who have been radical feminists for decades.

To put your mind at rest, it absolutely recruits women, they are coming in their droves to feminism and learning. It's probably the biggest push in decades.

I do wonder, though, OP, what are all those feminist topics that are totally isolated from the question of what a woman even is? Can't be health care, can't be pay gap (factor in all the transwomen in Silicon Valley and the galss ceiling has officially been broken), can't be shelters, can't be sports, can't be scholarships,...

Just wondering what those topics are. Abortion, maybe? But no, mention abortion and you'll be sucked into some drama about how this is not really a woman's issue because of all the pregnant men and bepenised women who can't become pregnant because evil forces deny them their uterus transplant and such...

You sound like a TRA trying to convince us ‘there’s nothing to see here’.

I know, what she needs to do, is to start a Facebook group for people who are refugees of mumsnet, because they are so mean on there, right?

Somebody has delusions of grandeur. Been here a week and you think a bunch of people on a forum hate you? But then you also think you’re bringing radical feminism to this board 🤷🏾‍♀️

The irony of spending days on a thread repeating the same comment pretty much, that one issue, the one you continue to repeat the same comments about, is a waste of other people’s time. That you can’t see the lunacy of then wasting your time moaning about it over and over again.... I mean, practice what you preach! You sound like a TRA trying to convince us ‘there’s nothing to see here’.

I know I'm pretty much hated on mumsnet for bringing some of those principles here.

Lol. Gosh you really think you are notorious don't you?

And a trans woman does some minor thing and we all gasp and discuss it and center it. This role that we're taking on trans is not ideal for us, in my OPINION

We got to where we are now, with having to call this person that does this minor/major thing a 'trans woman' rather than a 'man' precisely because we thought that the powers that be could also see it was a man and so we just got on with our own womaning and let it lie.

If you want to let men carry on pretending to be women whilst taking away all your rights including the right to even define yourself, whilst you talk about other stuff then crack on.

I know I'm pretty much hated on mumsnet for bringing some of those principles here

Oh god the drama

Nobody hates you

I think a lot of us who grew up in the 90’s got pretty turned off by liberal feminism

It felt like ‘man spreading and micro aggression, that’s what we’re campaigning about now? Well, those things are bad but I’m busy and if that’s all that’s left it kind of feels like you hard core feminists and academics have got this’

And then this blew up and it’s real and serious and it brought me back to feminism

So speaking for myself, when I talk about feminism this queer theory attack on women is mostly what I talk about

Those of you who have been involved in feminism for years are probably all over it, but I’m still processing, and I want to talk about it

Both approaches are fine

I know I'm pretty much hated on mumsnet
Bless me what a revealing comment. I think sakura that you have some way to go before achieving Mumsnet folklore.

Anyway speaking for myself, yes I contribute mostly to trans threads and the reason is simple: I can talk about other feminist issues openly and comfortably. I cannot do that with transgender issues - although I am slowly getting braver - and we all know the reasons why.

Perhaps I can draw your attention to my earlier thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3583612-A-declaration

Putting women at the centre of focus isn't unknown on here, despite the preponderance of topics you may feel get over egged.

But OP and sakura184, you don’t have to get involved in threads about trans issues if you don’t want to. You are free to start and participate in threads about other feminists issues if you want. It seems important to you both however that no one else here should get involved in discussion of trans issues either. Why are you so insistent on pushing this ‘nothing to see here, they’re just a distraction’ line when, as others have pointed out, there’s a lot to see and they’re not so much a distraction as an actual barrier to centering women in many arenas. It’s not just about bathrooms. It really isn’t.