Are feminists getting played?

But councils sports bodies, shops, girl guides, political parties don’t know what a woman as they can’t define what a woman is apart from anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman

So to continue a point made by Datun upthread, we know women aren’t discriminated against in the film industry because the warsawski siblings have made loads of blockbusters and they’re women, right?

The point is Maniak that people who make the decisions have no understanding of what a woman is (or at least pretend that’s the case)

The word woman is taken by adult human females, those who do not fit into that category need to find another word to describe themselves.

Brava! Standing ovation for @RedDogsBeg

You see @Maniak sex is only to do with gametes.

If your body develops to supply or potentially supply the large gamete [ovum] it is labelled a female body. [This applies to all plants, animals and mammals which rely on sexual reproduction for perpetuation of their species.]

If your body develops to supply or potentially supply the small gamete [sperm] it is labelled a male body.

That is it. That is all there is.

You can change those labels but you can never change those gametes.

This is why no life form that relies on sexual reproduction for its survival can ever change sex. This is why transsexualism or transgenderism [call it what you like] is such a nonsense!

If legislators think ‘woman’ includes some males who feel really, really womanly, then no, we can’t have a conversation about women, if the conversation you want to have involves identifying people who face discrimination because of their perceived ability to gestate babies, either in the future, the present or the past

We know what a woman is though. You know, and I know, and everyone knows. So if we wanted to have a conversation about women, we could easily. Sure, in some contexts we might be forced to say "cis women" or "biological women" or whatever the language of the day is. Yes, how annoying, but discussion is still possible.

I disagree totally with this Maniak. If TW are to be called women then, no, nobody knows what a woman is. Interestingly, you use forced in your sentence about how women will have to describe themselves in order to have a discussion about themselves and yet you think MN FWR invests too much time and energy on the trans issue, you don't think forcing women to accept a different descriptor is a sufficiently feminist issue? The use of force is not merely annoying.

I won't capitulate to using 'cis' or 'biological' to describe myself no matter how much force or threat is applied. The word woman is taken by adult human females, those who do not fit into that category need to find another word to describe themselves.

Feminism isn't about licence to do anything that supposedly supports women.

Feminism is about the liberation of females everywhere in the world from patriarchy. It is about achieving power and control over our own female lives without any reference to men.

what I don't expect is for the "women only at all costs" view to be silenced on a feminist board.

Here is the problem. Many people who want justice or equality for women, who are feminists, do not think that makes it ok to be unjust toward men, or tell lies about them.

Feminism isn't about licence to do anything that supposedly supports women.

Hmm, if you claim to be a feminist but can't see the importance of transgender ideology and its impact on all women's issues then I think you may be self-identifying as a feminist.

Women are discriminated based on their sex, as a sex -class, not because of what they are wearing.

@Maniak

Your OP at the top of the page is the first post you ever made here in your user name, is it not?

BickerinBrattle

Very well said. I, for one, will persist in my quest to loosen the bolts on those wheels.

It’s interesting to me that just as the wheels are coming off, just as even the Guardian can no longer ignore live medical experimentation on children, just as Canada is being made to reckon with the anti-woman nature of BillC-16, just as the IOC is now visible in the world press as having privileged a wealthy white male’s internal feelings over the material realities of Pacific Islander female athletes, and the implications of that, just as the press starts to notice rapists housed in female prisons and paedophiles pushing for male access to female toilets and changing rooms —

well, THAT exact moment is when the question arises: are feminists paying TOO MUCH attention to the trans issue.

Well, yes, I guess we must be. All that attention is actually having an effect.

I’m in awe of what women, standing in solidarity, can accomplish — have already accomplished.

Every single political party, lobbying organisations funded with millions, walls of silence erected by the media, geysers of pseudoscientific bafflegab, accusations of causing thousands of literal murders, oceans of big pharmaceutical cash —

Slowly but surely are being pushed back by ordinary women standing and speaking together.

And so the attempt begins, to shatter that “together” part.

Not falling for it.

Lol.

Sorry, but it is.

I tend to think the women here are clever enough to spot trolls without the games.

Really? Because Sakura, instead of answering a question directed at them, told us off earlier for not engaging with the troll you mentioned, they expected us to spend our time debating that troll rather than having discussions about the threat of self ID & trans ideology amongst ourselves. I certainly hope you’re not suggesting Sakura isn’t clever then, because they consider that abusive.

Id never get out of the sodding corner sackrifice

Im joiner bernard its a fault

Actually I shouldn’t rise to negative comments

Are you sitting in the corner, one minute for every year remember?

We could be here a while. Well, half an hour at least. :)

I hope you’re considering your behaviour Rufus

I know I am