Are feminists getting played?

This was masculinity in the 17th century:

1. To try and get out of these endless argument about what a woman is and isn't.

There is no 'endless argument'. We all know what a woman is. Some men are trying to redefine woman. Why should we let them do that?

2. To shore up rights where it matters. Like, concede women's rights bit keep reproductive rights. As an example. Given that reproduction is real, it can't be argued away.

Why should we concede anything just because some men want us to?

The notion that society can be meaningfully, purposefully and realistically constructed on the basis of who performs current cultural standards of femininity or masculinity that are created and imposed by patriarchy is laughably ludicrous.

It bears no relation to the reality of people's lives as natural biological beings.

Dearie me! What nonsense is transgenderist ideology!

I don't see it like that OP. The way I see it, is the trans issue is so horrendous that it has woken thousands of women up about how many people in power (unfortunately of both sexes) feel utter contempt for us and how our sex based rights are considered fair game to throw away. It seems to have fuelled a fantastic new wave of actual/radical feminism.

For years feminism got infiltrated, diverted and diluted with toxic 'liberal feminism' which centred men so the voices of the actual/radical feminists got drowned out. Hopefully those days are over.

We're getting played on bathrooms for sure.

See my post immediately above yours, Maniak.

Indeed. It is the expression by men of their sense of entitlement to disregard a very basic boundary against our consent.

Yes exactly. I personally think that consent is one of the most important feminist issues.

Yes but for reasons of gender perhaps rather than reasons of sex?

I can't think of a category that would be better divided by gender than it is by sex. Obviously this is the crux of the sports argument, but look at the other things as well:

Crime, including sexual assualt - TW have offending patterns the same as men, not the same as women (even worse if you count every prisoner in the UK who claims to be a woman as TW). Therefore, for crime it is sensible to differentiate by sex, not by gender.

Women have grown up as little girls and then teenage girls and have had their bodies treated as public property, a vast number have been groped, assaulted etc. There is a reason they need privacy from the male gaze and it isn't their inner identity. Growing up male is a different experience (not lesser, but different). The reason for single sex changing areas has not gone away, there isn't such a good reason for single gender (and how many genders are there anyway)?

All women shortlists are based on the premise that women are under represented. It is also to encourage role models, so more girls grow up with role models and feel such a job is possible for them. Do these things apply to a TW? Not really. If TW are underrepresented, then they need a different list and to take space from the men, not the already underrepresented women. If TM were taking things from men at the same rate, there might be an argument to differentiate by gender, but so far - no evidence, no reason.

Can you name me one category where the sensible, significant differences are by gender, not sex? I honestly can think of VAT on make up (and that is a stretch and a non issue) and female hairdressers charging more than barbers.

The removal of single sex toilets from women is a symptom of loss of woman's power and autonomy that the trans issue produces.

Indeed. It is the expression by men of their sense of entitlement to disregard a very basic boundary against our consent.

It is about men saying to women we can do whatever we like to you .. you women have no value except in so far as what we choose to do to you. You women only exist for the purpose of us men to do with as we choose.

This is the very expression of rape culture.

If you remove 'woman' then what happens to these words?

mother
/ˈmʌðə/
noun
1. 1. 
a woman in relation to her child or children.

birth
/bəːθ/
noun
1. 1. 
the emergence of a baby or other young from the body of its mother; the start of life as a physically separate being.

wife
/wʌɪf/
noun
1. 1. 
a married woman considered in relation to her spouse.

sister
/ˈsɪstə/
noun
1. 1. 
a woman or girl in relation to other daughters and sons of her parents.

Or am I missing your point?

Maintaining existing women’s rights in law is not a distraction. It’s extremely vital work. I don’t really get posts that tell women how to spend their time and what on... and in what percentages like, wow.

I think the trans stuff is destroying us. Not only splitting up feminism into camps but distracting us.

On the contrary, if we don't defend the few rights that women currently have against the efforts of those men to destroy them, we have to fight the last 100 + years over again.

There is no way we are going to do that.

Currently, the UK Equality Act 2010 contains most of the protections we need the Exceptions written in Schedule 3, Schedule 9, Schedule 23, etc and their associated Explanatory Notes.

Women now need to campaign to ensure that all those Exceptions achieve mandatory status so that the process becomes opt-out rather than opt-in.

At most, it should take up 10 percent of our feminist attention

Given feminist also have jobs, hobbies, caring responsibilities, housework, cook meals, commuting, ablutions, shopping and enjoy some leisure time. Spending 10% of their attention on trans stuff is quite a commitment.

It's not about toilets.

It's about power.

The removal of single sex toilets from women is a symptom of loss of woman's power and autonomy that the trans issue produces. There are many more examples though. Focusing only on toilets is like eavesdropping on a conversation and missing the entire point of the conversation.

I do because that there is a far right agenda along trans lines though, because its a recognition that's its a fracture line in liberal and left politics, because it exposes where hypocrisy and double standards are in liberalism and leftist agendas at the moment.

That's the point though. The left and liberal circles are leaving themselves exposed because this will be exploited for nefarious reasons.

That's not the fault of feminists. Indeed many feminists can see it for exactly what it is and are deeply uncomfortable with it.

Ultimately that's for the left and liberals to get off their arses, represent those they claim to and serve the interests of women.

Otherwise they cease to be there to serve the causes of women and to stand up for their rights and dignity. And cease to have any real purpose whatsoever.

Snd this:

www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/History-of-Womens-Public-Toilets-in-Britain/

Have a read of this, too:

www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/womens-right-work-toilet-bathroom-victorian-london-wwi-factory-protest

Like, concede women's rights bit keep reproductive rights. As an example. Given that reproduction is real, it can't be argued away.

Have a read of this, Maniak:

wordpresscom4320.wordpress.com/2019/07/25/womens-rights/

The redefinition of 'woman' to mean any man who fancies it means fundamentally undermining and often effectively removing the majority of the legislative and cultural advances that women have made over the last hundred years or so. And yes, that includes the right to bodily privacy from male people when using the toilet.

I just think though that there's no harm in articulating very clearly what we mean by woman.

Woman means adult human female. [Girl means infantile, juvenile, adolescent female.]

[Female is the physical life form that supplies the large gamete for the purpose of sexual reproduction of any species.]

That is it. There is nothing more.

I was sexually harassed in the street from about 11 years old. I had short hair and wore non-sexualised clothes. From 11 YEARS OLD. Based on my sex not gender. Thank fuck for older feminists, like my mother and her friends. Who had also been treated shamefully both as girls and women.

It's like going into a factory and saying, 'don't unionise, you have nothing in common with the coal miners or even those people in the paint section'. The WORKERS united, like WOMEN united. You get more done as a class.