Dickpandering in feminism

Can you just imagine Harrop and his gang sitting around their IPads grinning about the silliness of all this? This is exactly what they want. Heck, they're probably on here, stirring things up even more. We need to be the better side.

Sadly I don't care so much if men are listening or not. This thread is enacting its own nightmare: like all those movies where women are either speaking about men, or not speaking at all. Much more interested in what women are doing out in big wide world other than worrying about men...Maybe we could start a thread: amazing shit women have been up to that nobody previously knew because it wasn't publicised before...

Did you all co-ordinate these responses in your secret group?

There will always be women who want no male input into feminism campaigning at all and there will always be women who dick pander to the men who get involved in feminist campaigning.

You’re right. On the GC issue though, we should remember it isn’t exclusively feminist campaigning.

The role and use of men in the movement for women's liberation is an important feminist issue, and one that is playing out in real time right now. The fact that raising it on here results in a slurry of troll/GF accusations on this thread is bizarre.

Also this.

There is huge amounts of fawning over men who 'get it' - not just on here but across social media. And while I accept the argument that their voices are likely to be heard above ours, we all have a responsibility to keep pushing women's voices to ensure that we are not doing all the labour while they get the kudos.

Yes. These specific arguments aside, this is something we all need to bear in mind and try to fulfil that responsibility.

Look. It's a spectrum. There will always be women who want no male input into feminism campaigning at all and there will always be women who dick pander to the men who get involved in feminist campaigning. Most of us are somewhere in between. I tend more to the no penis thanks side personally, but am prepared to bite the bullet and accept that right here, right now, we need men too.

As far as this particular circumstance goes, here's my interest: it seems to me that Kate Scottow has found herself disadvantaged twice now in initiatives involving men. I don't know all the details. I don't want to know all the details. I'm not interested in working out what blame goes where. Kate is under extreme pressure and in an awful position regardless of these fallings out and so the only thing I'm interested in is what I can do to help and/or support her. I have no intention of falling out with any women over it.

Sevigny

I posted two because people are complaining women don’t get the same attention. I was on those posts, those complaining were not. Two posts and I ‘keep posting’. Jfc.

I’m done. This is silly time wasting.

Jessica you kept posting other threads for our attention, as though everyone else is not already well informed and fighting fucking hard for women and girls. It’s also derailing the thread which, since you have been on MN for so very long, you know is considered to be rather impolite.

Spartacus - exactly. Every women’s campaign I’ve ever been involved with there has been issues thrown up by the involvement of men. Those are always dealt with without shutting down women who are experiencing problems and alerting the rest of us. It’s odd that on MN lately only gratitude toward GC men is allowed. (Criticism of GC women abounds from many of the same people though.)

And more respect for Sweary too, by the way.

Are they not allowed to have an opinion on gender-neutral toilets?

Having & stating opinions - absolutely fine. But where James Kirkup, for instance, gets it right is that he’s always very careful to acknowledge the women who have been working on this for ages & also how much more shit they get for it. I have a lot more respect for Dr EM than I do for Glinner.

I haven't seen the twitter stuff and I don't need to. It's an issue on FWR and it merits discussion and if we can't discuss it without getting massively defensive, I think we need to ask ourselves why that is.

And Sweary is a pussycat compared to Dittany. And this board is poorer for the latter's absence.

The role and use of men in the movement for women's liberation is an important feminist issue

But a lot of women who are concerned about the threat posed by the trans agenda don't consider that they're part of the women's liberation movement. Are they going to turned on as well?

Just because feminists are involved doesn't mean they fucking own the fight. You'll drive supporters away with this territorial bullshit.

IS Now a good time to say how lovely frozen hot water bottles are?

You know what this movement needs more of? People who could start a fight in an empty room. We just don’t have enough of them

Right?

Look of you are dumb enough to still be on twitter and have a spat there, why bring it here? I’m not your Mum. Sort it yourselves.

I don't see why women should be able to ringfence this issue as a 'women only' problem. Men are parents too. Are they not allowed get involved in fighting for the safety of their children? Are they not allowed to have an opinion on gender-neutral toilets?

Amalfimamma
It was me who told Sweary that - not Jessica. And I have apologised and am most embarrassed for not recognising her.

You know what this movement needs more of? People who could start a fight in an empty room. We just don’t have enough of them

IF someone thinks someone else is wrong, it should not matter that they are newer than the queen bee. They can state the8r mind based on what they see. Else it’s just a clique.

You know what this movement needs more of? People who could start a fight in an empty room. We just don’t have enough of them.