The fatal, hateful rise of choking during sex - Guardian piece

Quite. This is no different to the women who peddle happy hooker crap and say what an entirely positive, life enhancing choice it has been for them personally as a 'liberated woman', as though this is a devastating answer to calling for the end of paid rape.

'I really like being abused!' is a stupid fucking counter to the evergreen and increasingly normalized issue of abuse.

And yes, hugely bad taste when we are talking about women dying. I cannot honestly think of anything else which leads to injury and death being excused because some deluded sap has been conditioned to 'enjoy' it.

Stop fooling yourselves, and stop trying to shop window your disturbing and dangerous foolishness when women are being killed.

When a person finds that 'they like' dangerous practices which normalise something harmful to women, if they are a feminist, they put their 'liking' to one side, and take a good, honest look at what they are consenting to.

I've done this before in regards to a different behaviour - my sex life isn't immune to feminst analysis - and made a choice to put a (porn-scripted) 'liking' aside. People can choose not to engage in things they 'like' because they recognise the harms to themselves and to others.

Choking does not need to be more normalised than it already is. And if you choose to defend your pleasure - I do it and I like it! - over engaging with the reality that you take part in and normalise a behaviour that has literally killed other women ? Well, I don't find that a particularly feminist way of being.

Yep, wearing my Judgey McJudgey pants today, and I give zero fucks.

"Oops I accidentally killed her" is a lie.

Yes 100%

'"Consenting adults" is the defense these men use. It needs to be chucked out the window.'

100% agree.

The idea of ' banning ' the act between consenting adults who are super happy is a derail that has been introduced.

"Consenting adults" is the defense these men use. It needs to be chucked out the window.

It is unlikely because it doesn't happen. Unless they are drugged or unconscious in some way women fight for their lives when men are killing them.

"Oops I accidentally killed her" is a lie.

Anyone ready to share the law that says any of these acts are illegal between consenting couples in private where no harm is done?

These men are murdering women and saying they wanted it. Let's get that addressed first.

'I don't think it's odd that people don't realise how dangerous it is. They see it all the time in videos, and mostly they aren't actually intending to kill anyone'

Come off it.

When you're suffocating, you struggle. When you're dying, you react.

Idea that women are what, not giving any sign they are at deaths door is bizarre.

Imagine someone is strangling you to death. You can't breathe.

Idea that men can't tell they are killing suggests women go passively, quietly. No struggle. No trying to get hands off. No going blue / limp but still not dead.

This defence only works if you believe women are passive even when being killed by strangulation. Feels unlikely.

"So what's going on with the stuff people choose to do is very much to the point."

We're getting the usual tedious "women like it" guff to hide the fact that there are men who like this very much. No insight, no analysis, just "I like it". We're not actually finding out what is going on because the posters are obviously in deep denial about what these men are doing to them.

It should be illegal for men to strangle/choke women, full stop, whatever the results are. Women deserve protection.

No one has said that choking should be illegal between consenting couples in private?

I am pretty sure it is illegal in the UK, and in Canada, I'm not sure about the US. Personally, I think it should be, though I recognise that it is impinging on people's sex lives and even affects pretty notional scenarios. But I think it's significant enough to be proportional.

It should be illegal to murder people through strangulation, of course.

The fact that it is now seen as an unfortnuate side effect of being a heterosexual woman is shit.

What people do at home is irrelevant, if everyone is happy, no one is dead or calling the police, are they.

I don't understand what point this post is trying to make except, this is a reasonable defence for men who murder women ( and older girls) by strangulation, which handily is a preferred method for men to kill women in general.

You want to talk about your sex life on a thread about women who were strangled to death by sadistic men. Once again, what is wrong with you?

But the article is very much about both these things, isn't it?

I mean, that's part of the problem, that people who actually are murderers can plausibly claim that it was conventual, because that has become so common. That's what the article talks about.

So what's going on with the stuff people choose to do is very much to the point.

I don't think it's odd that people don't realise how dangerous it is. They see it all the time in videos, and mostly they aren't actually intending to kill anyone, unless they actually are. They think they can control what happens. Usually no one dies.

What they don't realise is that it can go wrong so very easily, without anything being done differently.

Of course it should be illegal for men to do this. At least women who men do this to would have some recourse then. It would be up to women then whether they wanted to report it or not.

So what? It's worth it never happening again if it saves women's lives.

You think that response is disproportionate. I'd like to know why you value your orgasm and the excitement of your partner so much more than the lives of women.

You didn't have to plaster your sex life all over this thread, but like I said it's performative. You obviously need people to know you do this. Why? Nobody is coming into your bedroom, least of all the police, unless you end up dead because of this of course.

But regardless, I get that a discussion of where to draw a line isn't at all what you are aiming for this thread to be, so I will duck out.

'why it should be outlawed'

??

No one has said that choking should be illegal between consenting couples in private?

Is this a derail.

I only responded because of comments implying that it shouldn't be allowed to happen at all, under any circumstances- not those sort of cases. Please don't try to put words in my mouth to suggest otherwise. Like I say, that response is not proportionate. As I said before, it is of course wrong in every case where violence is a motivator.

'I completely get that it can be dangerous, but all sex can.'

???

What are you counting as dangerous here?

Your average het man is not in much danger in a sexual encounter with a woman, surely?

Would be interested in understanding your point better, as 'all sex can be dangerous' feels like a dismissal of a lot of the real life population level differences between men and women, girls and boys in terms of strength, power dynamics, expectations etc.

I completely get the severity of those cases, but I can't see how what I do is comparable, and why it should be outlawed. In my head it's the same as saying all sex should be banned because rapes happen- it just doesn't feel proportionate.

I'm not defending those who do it with violence as the motivating force, I just don't feel that it's the same thing. I only want to understand the position better- not in any way belittle it.

It's performative. It has to be spoken about publicly so other people know. It's an act.

Stop fucking talking about your sex lives on a thread about how women have been killed by men who claimed they liked this, bolstered by women like you publicly declaiming you like it too.

This is the feminism board, where is your solidarity with these women who died? You are literally giving murderers a defense. Is your orgasm really that important?

Goosefoot "It's a fad because of increased exposure. You could ask the same thing about a lot of sex practices, they become popularised somehow, in the public eye, so a certain number of people enjoy them. It probably appeals to the same people who like other rough sex, hair pulling or that sort of thing."

I can't say anything about exposure, but it's something I have always liked- but not been able to engage in unless I completely trust my partner- not something that I've tried because of hearing about it. Exactly the opposite in fact. I have only very recently come to know that what I enjoy classes as choking- in my mind, it's not comparable.

Wanting my partner to do it is a sign to me of how much I trust them. Yes, hair pulling and rough sex are also things that I enjoy- but I also enjoy soft, slow, tender etc as well. But it's not about breath play- I couldn't do that- it does not restrict me at all- and I now have the confidence to say that if I ever felt even the tiniest bit uncomfortable during sex, that there would not only be no more of that type of sex, but no more of any kind of sex.

Believe me, this is nothing like the coerced sex I have had in the past even though that was never rough by any standard. I know my body and I know my partner and he would never do anything even vaguely rough unless it was entirely led by me.

I completely get that it can be dangerous, but all sex can.