Hello Lurkers!

Spanner that's a good idea about a thread for actions. Petitions are tricky as Mumsnet likes to move them all to a specific petitions board (there's a petitions board? Who knew? Good luck trying to find it!)

There was a thread recently started by wigglybluelines here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3645590-Feminist-petition-news

which has some recent petitions linked to.

This thread started while I was away on holiday and I've just seen it so thank you to @HelenaHandcart for posting and bumping it up.

Also nearly entirely a lurker. I would like to say a massive and heartfelt thank you to all of the regular posters here for their hours spent patiently, or not-so-patiently, setting out the arguments, explaining the issues, linking to credible sources, and joining the dots. I know it is often said that it's worth "wasting your time" arguing with the visitors who come here to stir up trouble, because of the lurkers who will read your reply and think about what you've said. I can only say that this thread is evidence of how very true that is. Thank you to @BadgertheBodger for drunk-posting it.

I know that I've seen various "If you do one thing for women and girls today" type threads. Is there one central thread (like the "Break it down for me" and "This never happens" ones) where people post when there's a specific action needed - petitions to sign, emails to send etc?

Hi @JessicaWakefieldSV

I just tried to send you a long waffly PM, but got a message from Mumsnet saying that you can't accept PMs. Is there a way you could send me one & I could try to reply (I don't know if that would work).

Hi, I try - like Mangoes - to do all those things. My MP no longer responds to contacts I make! He's an ex-scientist so ought to be UnWoke, but I have no idea. We do live in an area with quite a few tws, some of whom are friends of mine. They're just living their lives as best they can, and we seem to be a pretty accepting area - none, afaik, have mentioned being subjected to awful bigotry or prejudice. On the contrary. This particular demographic here may account for why my MP doesn't reply to me as he will be mindful of those people. None of them, the tws I mean, are TRAs. All have GRCs and have had all the surgery.

Ok so we are all delf confessed shameless lurkers. We hang around MN feminst chat and learn about feminism but are not confident to ppst because ifcyhe eloquence and intellect of other more learned posters on here.

But what is your understanding? Im gonna try and say what i understand and risk being laughed at or worse.

For me I am a brand new convert to the concept of protecting 'women's space' I kind of thought feminism was just How the media and the masses described it... for men hating radical Bra burners who are miserable. (Apologies if yhat is offensive to anyone)
But having had a tough time and coming MN more often and reading the threads I realise that understanding feminism as a principle will probably save my life in future. It will certainly preserve my emotional well being and support me to have peace and grow stronger. I would not say it is my new religion but I have realised how mysogony is deeply embedded in our society and I am learning to recognise it. It is insidious like racism and and other forms of discrimination.

Sooo that's my story simple but true. I do feel like I could happily punch most men in the throat but I also know that violence is not the answer so for the record i will not be doing that 😊😇

nods, winks, sups pint in corner
I've been tentatively chatting to an older, wiser, feminist woman in work about all this, she's much more articulate than me though unaware of the whole mess. She's in agreement when I've explained it to her. Thanks to you lot. Cheers.

Another one lurking on the lurkers' thread!

Another lurker here (though I have to take regular breaks because it all gets just too depressing and enraging so I don't lurk as much as I used to), never really have anything to add to the discussions but I have learnt so so much from here, I am very grateful to the amazing intelligent posters here.

Another long time lurker here. Like other lurkers I dont feel I have much more to offer as the regular posters usually say what I feeling much better.
After eading here for many years now though I have felt able to put my head above the SM parapet on facebook (cant figure twatter out) to be continually shot down & called bigot/terf by my predominantly liberal lefty friends list. I dont care anymore and have been more than able to hold my own. I know Im unlikely to change any of their minds... but hope that there are lurkers who will read, be intruiged & read/research more.
So many smart & inspiring women on here, thank you all.

Yet another lurker. I discovered this board when I read something about Germaine Greer becoming persona non grata. Before that I was only vaguely aware that womanhood was under attack, as I don't Twitter or Facebook, and there hadn't been very much in the press. To be honest what I've learned since has hit me pretty hard and left me feeling that (to borrow a phrase from the TRAs) women's existence is being denied, certainly undermined. I think "How dare they appropriate my state of being? How dare they think they know what being a woman is all about? How dare they push in places where they have no business to be? I'm so very grateful to the articulate and intelligent women on this board that very patiently post day after day, to give the rest of us knowledge and ammunition to spread the word.

What a terrifically heartwarming thread. Thank you.

I don't post much in FWR but read every day, follow links, have spoken to my MP. In RL have to be cautious, I have fingers in a few pies, like many the lines drawn are cause for concern.

So KOKO you lovely, lovely women.

NB blurking is a great phrase and Be More Nanna an aphorism - clever and funny - to live by.

Sticking my hand up as yet another lurker, for mainly the reasons given by so many posters above. I'm vocal on twitter and irl as much as I can be, but someone here has nearly always said it first and with much more panache than I could. I lurk so much because it soothes my rage to see so many women here who haven't swallowed the bullshit.

I mainly lurk, very occasionally post. I don’t have time to keep up in real time, and posting on a thread days or weeks later doesn’t really work. I think the only reason I registered on MN in the first place was to post on the Spartacus thread.

Helena, which bit of London? I swim. No idea about teaching but I could give it a go, or at least get you started, the main thing is learning to trust the water. PM me if Jessica’s coach doesn’t work out.

MN has taught me a lot about feminism. I very rarely post. I'm not the most articulate and usually someone else make my point much better than I ever could. I love reading everyone's points though, it's just the one place I don't feel confident enough to contribute anything.

Another lurker, pretty much daily. Not intelligent or articulate enough to join the debate but learning lots (and have been able to use it in real life and work, which is fantastic).

Thank you regular posters, for all that you do.

@HelenaHandcart awww I'm so humbled that you were touched by my message! Brought a tear to my eye reading your messages too.
I like the thought that we have a bicycle ride to look forward to.

I have never heard of LEMC. I think I used CEMB from about 2006-2007 to about 2011-2012. It was pretty much the only space for Ex-Muslims back then, that I knew of anyway. Met a few lovely folk from there. It's a shame you were harassed by a poster there. I would have thought it would be one of the last places where your username would be controversial!!

Horrible that you and other women were targeted by predatory men posing as allies. I visited London once to meet a bunch of women from CEMB and we all went out for a meal and then to a nightclub. It was quite good to have a mix of ages and the older ones kept a close eye on the younger women. Quite nice to know we were all looking out for each other since many of the women had understandably very little life experience of socialising in such haraam spaces. :)

I'm glad that you were believed and action was taken.

I've been really pleased to see new organisations and communities like Faith to Faithless springing up. You're right that there's so much common ground and experiences among apostates and it's great that there are groups providing much needed awareness and support. CEMB was a great lifeline for me when I was so depressed and lost coming to terms with being an atheist and realising that everything I was taught and believed in was a lie. I felt out of place amongst white British atheists who had never left a high control religion like JW, Mormon etc because they couldn't grasp how profound and difficult it is to become an apostate and why I can never tell my aging mum that I no longer believe in the JW faith. Arab and South Asian atheists seem to understand without any explanation. :)

I was formally diagnosed as on the autistic spectrum / Asperger's in March, though I strongly suspected for a number of years and was slowly building up the courage to be professionally evaluated. Never fitted in anywhere my whole life, especially among other women. It scares me how I could have been sucked into trans ideology if I was a young person today.
Like you, my atheism and feminism is very strongly linked with my autism. I can be extremely stubborn, logical and super passionate / angry at injustice and unfairness. Although I am a relatively quiet and mild person, I can get fired up and surprise people by my passion (and obsessive interests) at times.

Feel free to send me a DM when you feel like it and I hope you will feel like sharing your thoughts and experiences in other threads when you're ready.

I also read here every day, and would like to say thank you to all the brave, passionate, clever and articulate women who take the trouble to post. You are making a huge difference.

To those pp's with teenagers who disagree: keep the dialogue going if you can. We don't agree on some things, but my teen has gone from a hardline no-debate mentality to being open to discussion on the subject.

Hello fellow lurkers I rarely if ever post but visit the forum a number of times a day.

Me too. :-)

Still lurking around, just popped on to express thanks and solidarity to all the regulars and lurkers for fighting the good fight here on the boards and out in the big wide world!

Bless you for Blurking Helena

Yours, and others posts have made wonderful and very difficult reading. Am both grateful and very moved all at once (sniffy with all the dust this end).

Also, laying these for one mother and one daughter, amonsgt the many.

Been a bit blown away by the positive strength of response on this thread.

Throw a stone and watch the ripples.

That seems to be what this thread is, all the ripples that are reaching into other's lives and further connections, and on.

The pp on teen learnings/teachings to the woke teens in ones family is helpful, have been scratching around for long with this one.

Raising a (hun? - hilarious, put in mind of the other net for mums!) to the thread.

I guess unmumsnetty ❤️

Helena - threads have a mind of their own. You're not dominating.

Argh no edit button!

@NonnyMouse1337

Thank you for writing that, and sorry it took a little while to write back, I was surprised, and very overwhelmed, and needed to lie down - in a good way! I would love to teach you how to ride a bike if you ever come to London (I have 2!). There's nothing like trundling along, feeling the wind blowing through your hair,and the sun on your skin, and I imagine we'd be both be able to understand and enjoy the gravity of that little pleasure together. Sometimes it's the smallest things that are the biggest victories. I hope I can teach you!

I lasted on CEMB forums for about 5 minutes, years ago. Got into an argument with a dude offended by my username (I think I was Toms, Dicks & Jihadis), so I flounced off to LEMC & other places instead.

I stopped doing any ex-Muslim activitisty stuff a few years back. This was after a really bad experience with a so-called 'ally' that was hanging around the ex-M community group I was involved with. He was a predator, targetting vulnerable girls & women, who have just left religion, families etc, and a journalist. It's left me deeply suspicious of the motives of many 'allies', especially the ones with penises, especially when vulnerable people are concerned.
Even though everyone rallied around me, and the other girls/women that then came forward afterwards that had much worse experiences than me did too. It was relatively minor, considering previous experiences I'd had, just a grope when he thought I was asleep. I had a meltdown, and for once things worked out. Everyone believed me, many others (including a teenager with vulnerabilities) came forward, ad hoc processes were put in place, to keep the creep away and warn similar groups. So, all the things that should have happened, did happen (which was the first time I'd seen/experienced that, especially considering previous reactions when I'd raised sexual assault), which is good. But I withdrew from all of it because of reasons I don't quite understand. I had no intention of dominating the thread (again - am sorry!) but I just wanted to write that because I've read a lot of warnings about allies on here, and I wanted to reiterate that. Of course we need allies, but every single one of us must remain vigilant, as we do not understand other's motivations. Realising that I have a blind-spot that I have in this area (ability to perceive

My Mum's a convert too (so was my Dad's 2nd bigamous wife). I've met ex-JWs who had a torrid time. One starved by his family & nearly died. I know Faith2Faithless have done events with ex-JWs. We all have similar traumas & experiences, doesn't matter which cult-flavour we are escaping - the pain of ex-communicating oneself or the alternatives is both unique & ubiquitous. I was so amazed when you said you were autistic as well. That made me really happy - I was only diagnosed a few weeks ago, and it made me feel even more isolated from the world (like I might be the only one). So seeing your message out of the blue really changed that, in a big way. For me, my feminism, my apostasy, my moral outlook outlook is part of my autism/Aspergers, I think. I just didn't know that it was that until recently, I just thought it was some weird quirk and inflexibility of my mind, and pig-headedness, but how odd to suddenly discover that my personality is not quite, only that. I'd love to be able to compare notes with you. I felt a lot less alone just knowing there was someone with that can understand both apostasy & autism out there in the world. So, thank you. Seeing your message was a bit like suddenly seeing an oasis in the distance in the desert, with 2 little bicycles laying there waiting. I haven't cried in such a long time, but I did a little yesterday after reading your message. Am so grateful. I hope that all doesn't sound like too much! I'll send you a DM

@JessicaWakefieldSV That would be absolutely amazing, thank you, thank you, I got jazz hands! :) I will send you a DM.

@lakeswimmer Reading about your devastation finding out about your school friend and her daughter really brought home how everyday and normal this hatred/violence towards women is. It's every where and really drives home how we need to all keep an eye out for each other. The words 'by someone supposed to love her' won't stop going round my head. It's heartbreaking and probably true of each of that growing list of murdered women, and so many other violated women too. It's the up-close and personal part I don't understand, it's so alien to me.

@BadgertheBodger I agree with everything you said in your post and think similarly. Especially about being fucked in so many different ways. It's cumulative. Sometimes it's not even the big things that break us, but the little things. Relentless and who knows which straw will break the camel's back? With me, it was none of the big stuff that broke me. I'm pretty resilient, but eventually, was some ghastly little man with a power complex, who didn't like opinionated women, bullying me at work, after bullying loads of others, and the fall-out from that. That still surprises me, after everything else, but just goes to show.

I'm not sure I'm ready for my own thread yet, to be honest, I hope that's ok. Am a little self-conscious and socially awkward just now, and (this is an Aspergers thing) I agonise about some things which might seem silly - like some very kind things have been said to me and I know I should say thank you, graciously, and authentically, and i feel those things, but I just feel so awkward because my brain tied up in knots between how I'm supposed to act, react, feel, respond, and what I'm actually feeling (usually confusion/awkwardness), and expected response, then my brain worries about accidentally offending someone by getting that whole thing wrong, or not saying the right thing and so on, or forgetting something. I think, just right now, my brain isn't brilliant at processing some bits of social interaction, so my own thread feels like not the right idea (just now). I know that all sounds weird, but thought I'd try to explain in case I've done any of the above already.

But I also feel like I'm dominating this thread, and didn't want to, and I don't want to.Sorry! I didn't mean to accidentally transition from lurker to blurker, but here I am. My pronoun is discombobulated Maybe someone else can start a blurker thread or something, or come up with some clever idea/solution/alternatives, so any conversations can be carried on/moved from here to there? Then I can stop worrying about derailing/dominating the thread.

Mamello, hasn’t that creep done women a wonderful favour? Just think how many parents are now being given a wonderful opportunity to show how this self identify nonsense can damage women. Your daughter will start to question the TRA directive now.