Rape cases dropped if victims refuse to hand over phones

^Just out of curiousity, would you have to hand your phone over if you were raped by a stranger? Or just if it was someone you knew prior to being assaulted?

I can't see how handing your phone over if you were attacked by a stranger would help anyone.^

Yes I would. It comes down to me having nothing to hide. There could be conversations to people leading up to that event by a stranger that could lead to being used as evidence. It's about people you may have contacted before and after the assault, regardless of it being a stranger or someone you knew. If I want someone prosecuted for raping me, I'll do everything in my power to give them everything they needed. It's about having confidence in my own defence.

Does anyone remember the Ched Evans case? He had an actual team of people look for that poor girls previous sexual partners, then used their testimony to say she was consensual, based on things those men said she often said during sex. For fucks sake. That’s how his conviction was overturned. Because of words she said while enjoying sex with other men years previous.

So yeah, I have a fucking problem if they go through anything that is not about that exact night of the alleged rape. None of it is relevant. I would not trust them with my phone, no.

@arranbubonicplague that may be the case that they have to download the entire content of the device. It's probably not as simple as extracting specific data from it. But they aren't allowed to go through everything with a view of "using it to discredit", only to search specific things that's consented to on the consent form.

Yes while it did make me feel slightly uncomfortable, I had absolutely nothing to hide. So I was more than happy to give this info.

I did have to extract data from Facebook myself as they can't use screenshots as they can be edited. It is possible for the force to do this themselves by me handing over passwords etc. But that way didn't work for me so I had to request the release of info from Facebook. They sent me the entire back catalogue of my conversation histories. I then sent them conversations from a witness and defendant. They went back through the whole lot which is years worth. Again, didn't bother me.

seems that some forces download everything, included deleted items from many years previously. And it can be these past items that are used to discredit complainants

This is what worries me

No I’m not watching YouTube videos about cults thanks. You have no supporting evidence for the specific claim that false accusations of rape are high. Because there is none.

Juries convict because the alleged victim is tearful and appears genuinely distressed.

The conviction rate for rape is shamefully low. They do not convict because of tears, the suggestion is insulting to both victims and juries. You are really behaving bizarrely.

Just out of curiousity, would you have to hand your phone over if you were raped by a stranger? Or just if it was someone you knew prior to being assaulted?

I can't see how handing your phone over if you were attacked by a stranger would help anyone.

@HugsAreMyDrugs extracted what they needed from my SIM within 24 hours, kept my phone for probably a month or so. I used a spare because I was given my SIM back.

I had to sign a consent form and on there stated the only bits they were allowed full access to.

This varies from one force to another. Earlier this year I attended an event organised by Human Rights Association lawyers, Big Brother Watch etc. and this specific issue of phones and rape investigations was part of it. It seems that some forces download everything, included deleted items from many years previously. And it can be these past items that are used to discredit complainants altho' they may have nothing to do with the case in question.

last post for a bit

www.theguardian.com/society/2011/dec/11/carole-myers-satanic-child-abuse

How long did they keep your phone for @stilldontgiveaf?

I mean how common is it to even be in a cult?!

you might want to check out my posts on other threads as this will provide you with some insights in this respect

@JessicaWakefieldSV

There have been countless documentaries made about exactly this subject

Here are a few, I would genuinely value your opinion on these

these are old documentaries and clips

a recent scandal is in relation to this controversial treatment centre where many vulnerable patients were diagnosed with dissociative identity disorder and also recovered memories of satanic ritual abuse and incest

You criticise me for using "anecdotal evidence" and yet seek to stop law enforcement from securing real evidence from the phones of alleged victims

One of the very difficult issues with sex crimes is that sometimes there is no corroborating evidence. Juries convict because the alleged victim is tearful and appears genuinely distressed.

The problem is that people with false memories re not liars, they are people who genuinely believe that they have been abused. They make for convincing witnesses as their distress appears real.

I absolutely have to stop posting for today, and I cannot make you believe me.

One thing I can and will do very soon is to publish evidence connecting a scary number of NHS mental health professionals to abusive sex cults.

They operate by convincing vulnerable people that they have been sexually violated by their loved ones and that the experience was so traumatic that they repressed the memory.

Once they have alienated their victims from their families they set about exploiting them in all manner of terrible ways.

This is what happened to Carol Felstead. Her story is not just anecdotal. Her claims were investigated thoroughly by police after her mysterious death. He claims were found to be demonstrably false. This is not anecdotal is it fact.

I was raped last year and had no qualms with handing my phone over. That being said, I had to sign a consent form and on there stated the only bits they were allowed full access to. These were conversations between someone I disclosed it to straight after the incident and the defendant himself. I don't see what the issue is.

I wouldn't necessarily be against this

However wasn't there recently a very high profile rape case involving a group of sportsmen where highly questionable messages were found on their phones, but they were still found not guilty. So what is the point? What exactly are they looking for?

I take it the accused will also have to hand over their phone?

False accusations are extremely common

Got any proof of this? Links to any stats? Or are you just going off anicdotal evidence from brain washed cult members? I mean how common is it to even be in a cult?!

You can say it as many times as you like, doesn’t make it true.

There is no data to support what you say, you’re citing anecdotal evidence is meaningless to the stats. Which are clear: false accusations of rape are very rare, the lowest for any crime.

@JessicaWakefieldSV

I can tell you, as someone who has researched cults and quack therapies for a very long time that false memories of sexual crimes and false convictions for sexual crimes are extremely common and are being weaponised for all kinds of reasons. Hopefully following the Carl Beech fiasco things may improve but I am not holding my breath.

If you would like some real life cases to read through you can check out the testimonies here

www.stopbadtherapy.com/retracts/indexp.shtml

I am also very familiar with the case of Carol Felstead, one of a massive number of similar cases, the only difference with Carol's case is that it received press attention.

You can read about Carol's abuse at the hands of quack therapists here

www..justiceforcarol.com

I have also significant 1st hand real life experience of meeting people with false memories of incest, rape and other sexual crimes following cult involvement and bad therapy.

Just because you do not want to believe something does not make it false

False accusations are extremely common,

No they’re not. They are rare. Stop spreading falsehoods.

False accusations are extremely common, partly due to vulnerable people being brainwashed by cults and deluded mental health professionals.

Because of my connections to activists against quack therapies I know of many cases where completely innocent people end up in jail for terrible sex crimes of which they are completely innocent.

We live in a terrifying time in which mental health services have been infiltrated by criminals and very ruthless predators. Everyone is let down by this including victims of sexual crimes.

I think that people who claim they have been sexually assaulted or abused should have their phones examined, but it should be in a way that is undertaken by a specialist person who identifies relevant material to the police.

I went through a similar process myself when I was sexually assaulted and the defence lawyers wanted access to my medical records. I went through them with my GP practice manager who would have identified anything relevant to the police.

I did not like the process and experienced it as violating, however justice is the most important issue and given the level of false accusations, which is extremely high, we have to find ways to prove cases other then by simply personal testimonies of alleged victims.

The most important issues that need to be addressed IMO are

Police being trained by a variety of self described experts, many of whom are charlatans. Cops are gaining CDP credits for being trained to spot the signs of satanic ritual abuse by deluded quacks. This has lead to innocent people's lives being destroyed and predators evading justice. This has to stop

Mental health services not being fit for purpose and money being diverted into pseudo-therapeutic cults

Expert witnesses who are charlatans and frauds are a significant problem leading to all kinds of injustices

There is very little in the way of supportive services for survivors of sexual offences that has not been compromised by cults. This absolutely has to change. It is a terrible thing to guide vulnerable people who have been violated towards supportive services that will further violate them, all under the guise of "empowerment".

I don't have all the answers but just sharing my thoughts

And yes, in practice, rape is legal because of the way our system works.

Elements like this chip away at any sort of confidence that the system works.

Yes exactly.

A rape victim shouldn’t lose even more rights to privacy by having a phone taken, for god knows how long.

This is such an egregious violation of a right to privacy - so is being wrongly convicted. The Courts have to find the right course. It will differ from case to case.