Newsnight tonight: Britain's Experimented with Puberty blockers

The Webberlys have taken to twitter pretty quickly to post citations disproving claims made on newsnight. Gotta protect your market.

A good outcome is that the child reconciles themselves to reality and goes on to live their life free from being a life long patient.

Thats not a good outcome if you are a pharmaceutical company making these drugs.

Or

You are doctor in private practice who makes money from handing out these drugs, no questions asked, cos Self ID.

Fanny, you're right.

We don't know what puberty-blockers do to a female body that does not go through female puberty.

And, if that isn't scary enough, then we add testosterone to a female body that has not been through female puberty.

But we're just beginning to find out what actually does happen, I think.

And GIDS delaying and delaying and delaying publishing the outcomes of this study makes me think the situation is even worse than we have feared.

A good outcome is that the child reconciles themselves to reality and goes on to live their life free from being a life long patient.

We have to be able to say that without being labelled as transphobic.

Twitter thread re bone density studies

twitter.com/will_malone/status/1148000551608750080?s=12

Women's bones increase in density up to the age of 35, then it starts to tail off until menopause when the loss of oestrogen means bone density plummets.

So, that's why young women avoiding dairy fats were a concern - dietary control meant they weren't getting enough bone density laid down before 35, therefore fracture risk increases.

This is of no concern for young trans identified females. We give them testosterone and put them into an artificial menopause, let their vaginas atrophy (that nearly killed Buck Angel) and their arteries fur up. It is quite far from "first do no harm".

It suggests that she thinks transition is the ultimate goal rather than desistance and comfort in your own body.

The emails of her conversations with Suzie Green from the data breech definitely gave that impression.

Didn't Islan/Mermaids lay into GIDS recently as well? Their lobbying of GIDS and getting parents to lobby impacted GIDS in their favour before in lowering the age for PBs so maybe they are trying to pressure them again now?

It suggests that she thinks transition is the ultimate goal rather than desistance and comfort in your own body. And we should be recruiting more children for this process.

Yes that bothered me too.

Assume half the staff at the BBC are now downing tools and picketing - now Aunty Beeb has gone full T*RF

I saw someone on Twitter earlier saying that GIDS was "inherintly transphobic" because it started from the premise that being trans was a "bad outcome". I've heard Monroe Berkdorf say similar, that even if some kids are falsely given drugs/ surgery it's OK because being trans isn't a bad outcome. Like, how do you even get your mind around believing something like that? In what possible universe could having dysphoria so crippling that the only treatment is to surgically alter your body, take life long CSH, and spend the rest of your life trying to gaslight yourself into believing you changed sex, be anything other than a bad outcome?! OF COURSE that's a bad outcome. A good outcome is that the child reconciles themselves to reality and goes on to live their life free from being a life long patient.

And no, no child who hasn't had it clearly spelled out to them that no matter what they read online, they are and always will be their "natal" sex, can give consent IMO.

Tara Hewitt calling GIDS transphobic on the Twitters.

Concerns about young children with potential osteoporosis = transphobic

Yes, I have seen that Popchyk

I suppose, with an elderly mother with osteoporosis, several fractures from falls, I'm wondering when these sort of consequences of low bone density will become apparent. As I understand it bone density increases at puberty and decreases post menopause in women, so the children on puberty blockers fail to lay down the additional bone growth/density, but their starting measurements don't decrease. Children don't normally get fractures in the way elderly people with osteoporosis do, but obviously failure to lay down those reserves will have consequences further down the road. Do we know when? I don't think anyone has been on these sorts of treatments long enough to have an answer but I'm sure sure consequences of damaged health will become apparent as these children age.

Happy to be corrected on any of that but that is my understanding.

The bandwidth of "Transphobia" has increased to = anyone who thwarts me, disagrees with me or asks questions?

I think the bit that disturbed me was Polly Carmichel speaking a couple of years ago about how they knew that all children who took puberty blockers went on to hormones but they didn't know why AND THEN she said this might mean they weren't giving it to enough children who might benefit from their use.

It suggests that she thinks transition is the ultimate goal rather than desistance and comfort in your own body. And we should be recruiting more children for this process.

Ive not seen her speak before, but clip was disturbing.

BBC are going to get a lot of bigot/transphobia comments now, which will be intetesting. Hope they get serious pile ons to see what it's like and then report on it.

Tara Hewitt calling GIDS transphobic on the Twitters.

Is it used for precocious puberty? I know it's a different context as those children go through puberty (of the correct sex hormones) so is it the sole use of the drugs that's the problem or the combination with cross sex hormones/lack of proper puberty?

Fanny, Prof. Biggs talks about the Tavistock’s statement which cited a recent article on bone density. From 2018.

"It is obvious that a substantial minority of the girls on GnRHa suffered from abnormally low bone density".

This data is already available. It is just being ignored. Or manipulated.

Biggs certainly not pulling any punches on that TT assessment and he's right.

Hopefully as others have said this being the BBC will be a springboard for others to investigate further.

"GnRHa has never been licensed for treating gender dysphoria, not just in the United Kingdom but anywhere in the world"

And yet they prescribe it to children.

I hope a few more quietly questioning ‘gender’ professionals are looking at this and realising how very badly they have let down children like Hannah. And I hope they act accordingly.

It was like Philomena Cunk but I think that the media have to start with the basics because until now so much mainsteam media was very unquestioning. I really don't think the general public knows much about this. Speaking for myself, I didn't realise what a 'puberty blocker' was until I came here. The Stella O'Malley programme was hugely informative but by that stage I was much better informed.

I am angry that GIDS researchers can't even be bothered to update the Health Research Authority (who themselves should not have needed a reminder of the lack of reports from Newsnight/Michael Biggs).

Any longitudinal study needs to be open ended and half of us will be dead before the full facts come out.
Things like bone density and osteoporosis and increased risk of cardiac disease - these will probably become more apparent as patients hit their 40's.
Which isn't to say lots of other information won't become apparent much sooner.

(sorry about the double post - dont know how that happened. mumsnet seemed to freeze and then there I was repeating myself.)

It will be interesting (anger making) to see the trans push back on this, but what will be most significant is how many other news outlets start doing investigation instead of acting like unpaid PRs for the trans industry.