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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm not convinced that feminism has helped the women it should have?

905 replies

soapona · 22/07/2019 13:18

I think on these discussion boards and on my Facebook I see women. They don't insist on marriage so they partner remains married to the ex for years and year, they live together and I wonder what will happen should the man die. I also see women with no security living with men with no intentions of marrying and having children. Women moving in with men too soon. In the days gone by women would and could have insisted on commitment. So now the position for women is worse hanging round waiting for a proposal.

I know they don't have to I'm fairly wealthy and a single parent so have choices and always have. I don't have a lot to gain from marriage.

I'm not sure things have got better for women we are expected to do a lot now two incomes are the usual for a mortgage instead of one in the olden days . So it's a given women work, do the most childcare do we honestly think these thing will change when the power imbalance is there from the beginning?

Also the women marrying "beneath themselves", that's not the correct term but a man earning less and not likely to come into a decent inheritance. What is the point in getting married there if you're a women? Perhaps if the woman is wealthy to avoid inheritance tax for her children but other than that I don't know?

So would woman not be happier marrying the same or above and insisting on marriage early on, like it was a given in days gone by?

Surely Women are now in very risky positions due to this living together in a man's property. I see much more domestic abuse these days. I believe the stats are much higher with non married couples. Surely living together unmarried has been caused by equality and feminism and the very people feminists has been trying to help they've hindered.

OP posts:
soapona · 28/07/2019 00:53

:copy and pasted from govuk

@Mamello I assume this is proof of a transaction of sex!

The marriage was not consummated owing to the incapacity of the Petitioner/Respondent to consummate it (this will not apply to marriages of same sex couples)

The marriage was not consummated owing to the wilful refusal of the Respondent to consummate it (this will not apply to marriages of same sex couples)

Funnily enough only male/female relationships count!

OP posts:
soapona · 28/07/2019 00:45

Can a marriage still be annulled if it's not consummated?

OP posts:
Mamello · 28/07/2019 00:03

Surely the difference between prostitution and marriage is the nature of the transaction. In prostitution the man pays for and expects some sort of sexual gratification. In modern marriage in the UK neither sex, nor 'wifework' (not entirely sure what that is) etc is explicitly part of the transaction. Couples either use a form of words that are identical to signify their commitment or make their own up. The transaction is not a business one anymore it is one of commitment which can be demonstrated in anyway the couple see fit. I know this is not true in many other countries but it is here. The fact that either party in a marriage can abuse it is not the fault of marriage per se. The transaction in prostitution is always one of use and abuse however because it is explicitly about buying and selling a woman's body.

sakura184 · 27/07/2019 23:43

I don't see many happy looking 'hookers' when I'm driving along the Hagley/Soho road at night, tbh.

I don't doubt you. However you do get a lot of them writing articles for left wing newspapers

sakura184 · 27/07/2019 23:43

I want to say though that I think the battered wife stays for lots of reasons, the first one being she most likely can't afford to live alone especially if she has children. But also, there is such a sense of shame attached to the failure of a marriage, but especially for this reason. I also think battery is insidious: it starts slowly, builds up and grinds you down. If it starts in pregnancy, as a lot of battery does, then a woman is at her most vulnerable and probably disorientated. She is also majorly gaslighted by society into believing her husband is her protector.

Anyway I want to really get off the point of how shit marriage is and back to the point of it being a transaction and about how left wing men jumped onto the feminist rejection of marriage-as-ownership , but ended up freeloading off women without there being any transaction in place, so left wing women ended up worse of because of feminism

Can I also just say I don't think any of this was feminism's fault, I think it was just hijacked

LordRudolphVII · 27/07/2019 23:31

I don't see many happy looking 'hookers' when I'm driving along the Hagley/Soho road at night, tbh.

sakura184 · 27/07/2019 23:10

But my marriage is fine is just NAMALT and I thought that was generally frowned upon on FWR

sakura184 · 27/07/2019 23:09

Which is better than how some men behave in their "Englishman's Castle

MaeWest1890 quotes that every 16 hours in the US a woman is killed by her current or former partner. I think it's 2 a week in the UK. So what we do know is that there's more chance of you getting killed by your husband or boyfriend than by a random

We also know that the most dangerous time for a woman is when she tries to leave because that's when he actually goes ahead and kills her.
What we don't know ,and can't know, is how many women stay in marriages because they are aware of this

We also know that battery often begins when the wife falls pregnant. Once she's pregnant and with kids it's very hard to leave a marriage, she is essentially stuck, even in 2019.

I know there are happy housewife types just like there are happy hooker types

LordRudolphVII · 27/07/2019 23:07

Apologies, I've never thought of it as that offensive a word. I'd be more offended to be called the c word.

LassOfFyvie · 27/07/2019 22:54

Whilst the statement is clearly absurd you really can't use language like that Rudolph.

LordRudolphVII · 27/07/2019 22:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

youkiddingme · 27/07/2019 21:58

thank you StopThePlanet and Gin Cake all round to those who need fortifying for another day.

StopThePlanet · 27/07/2019 21:47

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

youkiddingme

Your posts seemed straightforward to me, you seemed to be expressing yourself absolutely fine

SecondedWine

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/07/2019 18:33

Its always the answer you

Its the fucking question I can’t remember!!

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 27/07/2019 18:27

men can be abusive and are.

That is the crux of the problem, not if women are married,cohabiting or having wild monkey sex every second Thursday with a new guy.

Also one of your posts seems to imply that prostitutes are better off because they're paid for it(the sex,the abuse)That's an extreme minimisation and dismissal of their lives,experiences and traumas.

Your views are at best inconsistent and at worst hypocritical with a touch of an agenda(whatever that might be).

youkiddingme · 27/07/2019 18:23

Thank you also rufus Ah beer, that's the answer!

soapona · 27/07/2019 18:21

youkiddingme Understood!

OP posts:
Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/07/2019 18:19

Cross post

I swear to god that was a cross post

I got distracted by my beer

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/07/2019 18:19

youkiddingme

Your posts seemed straightforward to me, you seemed to be expressing yourself absolutely fine

soapona · 27/07/2019 18:19

@YourSarcasmIsDripping That is true but men can be abusive regardless of weather they are paying for it or not.

OP posts:
youkiddingme · 27/07/2019 18:18

Thank you Lass - I'm very new to all this and not very articulate so that is reassuring.

soapona would you mind not keep tagging me please? I am getting a lot of emails generated from all the tags. If you wish to get my attention bold within the thread works well. Thank you. I don't think I know the answer to your last question anyway, but I'm glad you're giving it all some thought.

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 27/07/2019 18:16

You didn't get my point. You can't proclaim how safe and controlled brothels are when men don't even have to be in the room with a woman for her to be harmed.

However, given your increasing rhetoric about how cohabiting is worse than prostitution I have a feeling you DO NOT want to get it.

LassOfFyvie · 27/07/2019 18:01

youkiddingme

Cake

There is nothing wrong with your ability to express yourself. Other posters, however, appear to have a lack of comprehension skills, or more likely, are deliberatly twisting what you said.

soapona · 27/07/2019 18:01

*@youkiddingme
*
But I do believe that no man who uses a prostitute has respect for her or for women.

What about men who cohabit have children and leave a woman and his children without security? I think this one is worse as the prostitute got paid and the transaction is complete. If the man that visits a prostitute has no respect I suppose the commitment shy cohabiter is a woman hater! Massive generalisation isn't it!

OP posts:
youkiddingme · 27/07/2019 17:57

I'm off to smack myself round the head with a frying pan make food.
No insult intended to anyone, pure frustration at my lack of ability to express myself as clearly as I would like.

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