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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm not convinced that feminism has helped the women it should have?

905 replies

soapona · 22/07/2019 13:18

I think on these discussion boards and on my Facebook I see women. They don't insist on marriage so they partner remains married to the ex for years and year, they live together and I wonder what will happen should the man die. I also see women with no security living with men with no intentions of marrying and having children. Women moving in with men too soon. In the days gone by women would and could have insisted on commitment. So now the position for women is worse hanging round waiting for a proposal.

I know they don't have to I'm fairly wealthy and a single parent so have choices and always have. I don't have a lot to gain from marriage.

I'm not sure things have got better for women we are expected to do a lot now two incomes are the usual for a mortgage instead of one in the olden days . So it's a given women work, do the most childcare do we honestly think these thing will change when the power imbalance is there from the beginning?

Also the women marrying "beneath themselves", that's not the correct term but a man earning less and not likely to come into a decent inheritance. What is the point in getting married there if you're a women? Perhaps if the woman is wealthy to avoid inheritance tax for her children but other than that I don't know?

So would woman not be happier marrying the same or above and insisting on marriage early on, like it was a given in days gone by?

Surely Women are now in very risky positions due to this living together in a man's property. I see much more domestic abuse these days. I believe the stats are much higher with non married couples. Surely living together unmarried has been caused by equality and feminism and the very people feminists has been trying to help they've hindered.

OP posts:
Fraggling · 22/07/2019 22:47

Remember OP said this

'Also the women marrying "beneath themselves", that's not the correct term but a man earning less and not likely to come into a decent inheritance. What is the point in getting married there if you're a women?'

An interesting perspective.

Fraggling · 22/07/2019 22:45

Q 'What are your plans for abortion rights please?'

A 'like the pill, legalised abortion has for the most part benefitted men not women!'

You aren't giving straight answers to straight questions.

Not any of them.

Fraggling · 22/07/2019 22:43

'Tell me how life is for women and girls in communities / countries where contraception / abortion are not generally available / legal please'

???
OP you aren't engaging.

IABUQueen · 22/07/2019 22:26

I agree with “Goose*

But also Op, I feel your opinions on feminism are rather polarised and limiting a huge concept into specific practices.

I think you have a lot to offer to the discussion... many people don’t like to rock the boat.. but in reality rocking the boat is sometimes needed to change..

However you do need to appreciate some elements of feminism which I’m sure you do, because it would be against logic if you don’t. You can dispute the implementation and interpretations as I do think there is many ways to be a feminist and not just one.

I think you need to be less defensive in your approach also and examine all sides of the argument.

TheInebriati · 22/07/2019 22:25

Goosefoot, you were ruder than I was, and made a more personal comment than I did.

I have no issue with criticizing feminist theory or action, its what these boards are for. I don't see much of that happening on this thread.

If 'feminism' has failed women, be specific. How has feminism failed women? Which women? Focus on feminism, not things that are not feminism and outside of its control.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/07/2019 22:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goosefoot · 22/07/2019 22:19

You know, pointing out problems with feminism, or even particular feminist ideas, or unexpected effects, isn't blaming women.

That's the attitude of a 13 year old, any discussion is some kind of personal attack.

It's not like most women have really been feminists anyway, so it wouldn't be blaming all women even if it was a personal attack.

There is something very dodgy about berating a woman for having a mixed opinion on feminism because feminism is meant to speak for women.

soapona · 22/07/2019 22:14

@TheInebriati I am not intending on blaming women. I just wonder if feminist and society are on the right course. It's ok to question thing you know.

OP posts:
soapona · 22/07/2019 22:12

@SpartacusAutisticusAHF I've been fortunate and had choices. I see and hear of women suffering everyday and I question it, that's all!

OP posts:
TheInebriati · 22/07/2019 22:11

OP, I think you are blaming women, especially feminists, for the behaviour of men, and for the shortcomings of society.

Goosefoot · 22/07/2019 22:08

Honestly, this thread shows the biggest problem feminism has had in spades ,which is women who don't toe the line, accepting the right ideas, or who ask the wrong kinds of questions, are treated like shit.

It's clear where the TRAs learned their technique.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/07/2019 22:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 22/07/2019 22:08

society expectations that we should cohabit and have children before marriage

There's no such expectations?

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/07/2019 22:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

soapona · 22/07/2019 22:07

Not only do no longer have choice in working but we now have choice in relationships taking away by society expectations that we should cohabit and have children before marriage because by the time you get to talking about kids your clock is ticking. All the cards with the man.

OP posts:
soapona · 22/07/2019 21:58

@SpartacusAutisticusAHF women could own property many many years ago. In fact women who owned land could vote before the suffragettes came along.

Of course I'm glad of Equality and proud of woman. I come from a family of women who are professionals and single parents when it was frowned and laughed upon to educate women especially working class girls in the 40/50s. Three girls 2 Drs and a teacher. Women need education it gives us choice and freedom. It's the single most important thing you can do for your daughters.

This is not about getting bank accounts or education it's post 1960s feminism. Where we don't get educated as an insurance policy if our marriage fails. We have to work and be exhausted all the time and leave our children in day care. It's not about the "choice" to work anymore.

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 22/07/2019 21:51

n both these cases it really isn't possible to look at it clearly as just a male female issue, or even mainly that. It's an issue where middle class and educated women (the ones with the nice new jobs) are now entering the same workforce as te men were in, and are doing so mainly on the backs of the working classes and particularly working class women. Because working class people usually had two incomes already, but with housing prices increased that doesn't go as far. And working class women are the ones being rather poorly paid for that expensive childcare

SO FUCKING MUCH THIS.

And then they are berated for living in "subsidised" social housing.

Im on the housing threads a lot and see it All The Time

Then when i ask if they are willing to pay more for their childcare so the social housing tenant can afford not to claim tax credits /UC etc i never get an answer.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/07/2019 21:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 22/07/2019 21:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

soapona · 22/07/2019 21:35

@MorrisZapp perhaps you can elaborate on your beliefs rather than just insulting me. I'm wanting to raise a discussion ,has it really benefitted women and society if so how?

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 22/07/2019 21:33

Wtf? The pill and abortion rights are bad for women? No they're not, you absolute weirdo.

soapona · 22/07/2019 21:31

@YourSarcasmIsDripping I understand where you are coming from, women should never feel they should stay with someone because it was their first, that is ludicrous. Slut shaming is dreadful and is man made, nevertheless that does not make casual relationship with no commitment good for women or children.

OP posts:
YourSarcasmIsDripping · 22/07/2019 21:30

there is something in OP's replies

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 22/07/2019 21:29

I might be , I can own up to that. But there's something I can't quite put my finger on it that tells me this is more about "the right way to do things/be a woman" and have a go at feminism rather than concern for women and girls. Might be just me tho.

IABUQueen · 22/07/2019 21:26

YourSacrasm

I’m sorry for the experiences you have been through. I grew up in a similar community.. but I do think you are projecting your experience onto OP and getting too defensive/accusative.

It’s not black or white. I’m sure there is a middle ground.

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