National Disability Scheme (AU) should pay for clients to access prostituted women ?

earlier in this thread I mentioned the psychoanalytic concept of the "transformartional object"

I posted a link to a video that demonstrates very clearly the concept of the transformational object in advertising.

Here is is again - furries, the transformational object (Orangina in this instance) and various fetish themes

I just wanted to share a link, there are so many threads I have notes on that I need to post but am very pushed for time

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190807170434/www.infotextmanuscripts.org/ncropa/ncropa-cac-141.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190807170434/www.infotextmanuscripts.org/ncropa/ncropa-cac-141.pdf

The above archived link is to a letter from Tuppy Owens re the 9th Erotic Awards which are allegedly run to make money for Tuppy's various controversial charities that put vulnerable disabled people in contact with sex workers, many of whom are invovled in abusive neo-tantric cults

There are many issues of interst that warrant further research in the letter, however I would like to draw the attention of readers to one of the patrons of the Outsiders Trust Professor Petruska Clarkson.

Clarkson was a very prominent Gestalt phsychotherapist who sadly committed siuicide alone in a hotel room.

Clarkson was very well networked into various psychotherapy communities and was a colleague of various predatory and dangerous psychotherapists including many body psychotherapists involved in neo-tantric cults, fake shamanism and the associated racist cultural appropriation of tribal / indigenous peoples..

According to this BBC report Clackson pushed for an investigation into abuses committed by psychotherapists against vulnerable clients.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20101215191343/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/282188.stm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20101215191343/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/282188.stm

I would be very intersted to know what happened about Clarkson's campaign in this respect.

Somewhere I have a screen grab of Tuppy describing Clackson helping to put disabled people in contact with sex workers. Tuppy is not a reliable source and I have known her to lie and misrepresent the truth regarding various issues (her own doctorate is an example).

I would be very interested to know more about Petruska Clarkson's death and what actually ahppened regarding her allegations of abuse committed by psychotherapists.

She may be an example of how a well meaning psychotherapist can get involved with sex cults and dodgy organisations, realise that some of her colleagues are grifters and predators, and then suffer cognitive dissonance, guilt and mental health problems as a result. This is just a speculative hypothesis on my part. I do not know what happened with Prof Clarkson, however my own experiences lead me to believe that her concerns about abuses were completely valid.

Asture readers will also notice that one of the patrons of the Outsiders Trust listed in the letter was the founder of the Samaritans Chad Varah.

I used to know someone connected to Tuppy, decades ago, who worked on a subsidiary helpline to the Samaritans that has faded from the meories of many people; the "Brenda" line.

The "Brendas" were volunteers who agreed to accept phone calls from men who masturbated while on the line. At one point I was encouraged by this "Brenda" to becoem a Brenda also, however working as an unpaid sex phone line operator didn't appeal to me for some strage reason.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190819094909/www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jan/02/sarahryle.theobserver" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190819094909/www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jan/02/sarahryle.theobserver

just a quick archived link relevant to the last above link

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20110620001904/www.shaktitantra.co.uk/who" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20110620001904/www.shaktitantra.co.uk/who

and a quick link relevant to the other link in this post

www.vice.com/en_uk/article/zn5kny/a-to-z-of-sexual-history-quodoushka-another-bullshit-sex-cult

this last link chosen as it is concise and a springboard for further research

that's it from me for now :)

@DanaPhoenix

I have a friend who is a care worker in a regional area. She has been harassed and propositioned before, always by older men (needing care as they are elderly not disabled). This initiative would not only put her in an awkward situation as suggested by a pp but possibly encourage an increase in harassment.

According to the advice provided by Tuppy Owens and her associates your friend should be supporting her clients by contacting sex workers on their behalf.

Some Q&As on one of Tuppy's advice pages (emphasis mine)

I am a disabled female and want to pay for sex with a man. Call us up to find someone suitable.

I don’t want to pay for sex as this might make me feel grubby. Look upon it as an education and a way to learn more about sex and yourself.

My parents / care staff disapprove. Tell them that it is illegal not to support you.

source:
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160324143656/tlc-trust.org.uk/page59.html#hpspecial" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20160324143656/tlc-trust.org.uk/page59.html#hpspecial

Notice the use of legislation regarding human rights to coerce carers into acting as pimps pretty much.

Also note the manipulation of vulnerable people with disabilities, persuading them to say and do certain things, to threaten carers with legal action if they do not comply with the client's wishes. Sound familiar from another issue?

It seems to me that whoever is behind this initiative is coming from the perspective that a sexual relationship will solve all their problems. I suspect that solving loneliness and isolation would be a lot more effective.

exactly!

Rather than to make society less disabling and more accommodating simply supply disabled people with sex workers

It is like using skin whitening cream to cure racism, or gender reassignment surgery to cure misogyny and homophobia.

It is that old "transformational object" thing again. More accurately a "transformational process" often referred to in woke speak as a "journey", "sacred path", "awakening", "activation" or "transition".

a couple more links of interest

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170516211742/shada.org.uk/sites/default/files/SexWork_Policy.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20170516211742/shada.org.uk/sites/default/files/SexWork_Policy.pdf

and this, this is really really bad

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160130063550/shada.org.uk/wp2/?page_id=38" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20160130063550/shada.org.uk/wp2/?page_id=38

Dana, your last paragraph is beautifully written; i agree with every word you said.

I have a friend who is a care worker in a regional area. She has been harassed and propositioned before, always by older men (needing care as they are elderly not disabled). This initiative would not only put her in an awkward situation as suggested by a pp but possibly encourage an increase in harassment.

She also has disabled clients, one in particular, who from what she has said would probably benefit from some sort or relationship not even necessarily a sexual one, perhaps companionship. This client has never been harassing toward her.

No one is entitled to sex. I do think though as a society that more could be done to help the social isolation of disabled people. To get them more integrated into society to forge relationships of their own whatever form that relationship takes as long as it’s consensual.

It seems to me that whoever is behind this initiative is coming from the perspective that a sexual relationship will solve all their problems. I suspect that solving loneliness and isolation would be a lot more effective.

this 'sex as a human right' concept is only a short step away
There's no step involved, it's exactly the same thing. Either women have a right to bodily autonomy and the right to choose our own partners, or men have a right to sex, i.e. to remove women's bodily autonomy and right to choose. There is no room for compromise there. As others have said, it's one of those statements where the meanings of 'human' and 'men' have become confused. It seems as if every fight women have ever had is being used against us, and all meaning is being negated.

A quick online check finds that 'Dr' Tippy Owen has an honorary PhD from the Institute of the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, that was an uncredited degrees for cash institution.

Apart from all the other reasons posters have given here against such a notion - this 'sex as a human right' concept is only a short step away from incels demanding they be 'helped' to find women to have sex with, in my opinion.

I am going to bet that there is zero in this about women with disabilities have access to sexually skilled male prostitutes.

Tuppy and her associates are very busy promoting male and female sex workers to vulnerable disabled women.

You only have to examine her TLC website that I linked to earlier.

Tuppy received a lot of flack from friends of an extremely vulnerable disabled woman who was extremely ill when she uploaded a photo of the women holding a protest sign saying "Disabled and Horny" shortly before the woman died. It stayed up for ages and might still be up there.

Personally I think we do live in a repressive society with many outdated taboos around sex and pleasure. I am committed to support disabled people in having enjoyable and rewarding sex lives.

I just do not believe that connecting them with recruiters from dangerous sex cults and / or using them as mascots and human assets is a helpful way forward for anyone.

beefing should read being

blooming autocorrect!

No personal experience I can just remember her emerging in the 80s going to confrences and her pamphlets given out about disability and sexxuality,like she was an expert
she had a documentary out maybe on ch4 about her service it was just really seedy exploitative (sp) and just urgh !

just in case you fancy beefing creeped out all over again, the documentary is here

Of significant interest to me is that Tuppy only appears occasionally and then appears to be a motherly, caring presence.

Vulnerable people with disabilities are the ones who ended up getting flack, largely from other disabled people, after broadcast.

Lots of similarities with how trans identifying people are used as mascots and human assets by others with a sinister agenda

I don't support the notion of schemes paying for prostitutes. But on a slight tangent I would get behind a nation wide campaign to include the sexual skills of men so that women are more sexually satisfied. How far do you think that would get?

1st law of cults

if you can imagine such a thing criminals will have also imagined it and perverted it into something horrible and abusive

In this case it has already happened.

Lots of neo-tantric cults recruit vulnerable males by advertising training courses of how to last longer in the bedroom and cure erectile dysfunction

Brainwashed women are happy to recruit vulnerable men in this way

The men gat raped, enslaved, blackmailed and abused in the end
Just telling it how it is

It puts a care worker in an awkward position, to say the least. It reminds me of the case of the young man who ate himself to death and his carers said they had to respond to his wishes (ie order him multiple takeaways a day) as that was their job - they couldn't make judgements.

Donkeys years ago I worked for a man who commanded me to "get him a girl" for the night. I had no clue how to go about this, but wouldn't have done it anyway. I didn't last long in that job! I felt very self-righteous, but perhaps I was wrong for being judgemental

I am going to bet that there is zero in this about women with disabilities have access to sexually skilled male prostitutes.

I don't support the notion of schemes paying for prostitutes. But on a slight tangent I would get behind a nation wide campaign to include the sexual skills of men so that women are more sexually satisfied. How far do you think that would get?

No personal experience I can just remember her emerging in the 80s going to confrences and her pamphlets given out about disability and sexxuality,like she was an expert
she had a documentary out maybe on ch4 about her service it was just really seedy exploitative (sp) and just urgh !

I can relate to your "Urgh" MrsJayy

Please don't hold back anything you would like to share here

PMs welcome if you prefer and are comfortable with it :)

Urgh Tuppy Owens theres a name ive not heard in years!

This is a massively complex issue

It is not merely about disabled men having, or not, the right to purchase sexual services

Around the world various "sacred sexual healers", "tantric engineers", "sexological body workers", "dakas", "dakinis" and whatever new age sex workers are calling themselves these days are offering "sexual healing" to men and women with disabilities.

The centrally important issue is as follows

Even if one accepts that people with disabilities are entitled to access commercial sexual services (I do not accept this) then is it right that the services are provided by a range of new age cultists some of whom are linked to paedophile networks and sex cults involved in blackmail, financial abuses and other crimes?

There is so much more to say about this, I am now running late

OP check out the UK organisations linked to Tuppy Owens for more information about how this is playing out in the UK, for example

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20181116040729/tlc-trust.org.uk/?page_id=1182" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20181116040729/tlc-trust.org.uk/?page_id=1182

It's that old patriarchal myth, innit ... the one where the men tell women that men need sex ... it's a basic human need for them.

No dear, it ain't .. 'cos nobody dies from not having any sex.

It is not a human need .. it is a human want.

What such men are really saying when they spout that old patriarchal myth is that they have no intention of controlling their impulses.

Get over it guys ... learn to control yourselves.

MRAs are not all able bodied. The sexual abuse of another is not a human right.

No one has a right to sex or a right to anyone else's body. I certainly don't think that tax payers money or charities should fund this.

Just to agree with PPs who comment on women as a commodity to which men are entitled.

iirc, at one of the WPUK meetings (and therefore there must be a video of the talk) Julie Bindel discussed a situation where prisoners who were being rehabilitated into their upcoming release were entitled to sex with women who were provided to them by the government.

In 2014, inmates of La Paquerette (a social therapy department for prisoners) were allowed to visit prostituted women in a local detention center near Geneva.

www.truthdig.com/articles/a-brutal-normality-switzerlands-sex-market/

iirc, I might not, I think that the "detention centre" involved people waiting to be deported rather than a criminal justice detention camp.

I think there's a virtue halo around sex for men for disabilities ever since the acclaimed film with Helen Hunt as a sex surrogate for a young man in an iron lung (The Sessions). As PPs and Bindel's story indicate, the reality for women (both as consumers and providers of the service) would probably be considerably less consensual and glamorised.

I used to be involved in disability activisim in my younger days and there was always talk of this , there used to be an agency (pre internet) who helped disabled men to access sex workers I had many a run in at forums and meetings about it there thinking was everybody has a right to sex and sex workers were doing it like care in the bloody comunity ,

I notice the article is about a woman. Better optics I suppose. No-one has the right to sex.

Yes, this does all come down to perception that sex is necessary for fulfilment, even health, and that it's cruel to put people in a position where they may never get to have it.

I would be careful with the language on this though. Being able to purchase something doesn't usually mean you have a right to it and many people won't see or accept the link without a little more explanation.