Gender Neutral Bogs with Urinals!

I hate the way Americans call public toilets restrooms and bathrooms. It's so prudish. It's a toilet FFS.

But it is useful to flag where the poster comes from.

Yes, it is 'all about the trans' isn't it.

Also from that article, the wokey-types objected to the signage. Traditional, universally understood symbols that represent the entirety of human reality were not good enough. The feelz weren't represented, even though we pee with our bodies and not with our feelz. What about the non-binaries? What about the furries? The cyclists? The left-handed Jewish vegetarians? Reality isn't inclusive enough!

Rather than stating “gender neutral”, as requested, the signs display traditional, binary symbols and make no reference to those who identify outside of the gender spectrum.

Molesmokes - my local shopping has very family friendly spaces - feeding areas, family rooms with private toilets etc - which would suit all manner of parents needing to taking their children to a toilet.

It's very interesting how there must be (I'd have thought) far more families needing family-friendly toilets, than trans/NB people requiring gender neutral spaces - yet the major push is for gender neutral. I don't see Edward Lord or Mr "campaigner-been-charged-with-child-abuse-Middlesbrough" campaigning for family friendly spaces.

I see mainly MEN trying to break down safeguarding barriers in public spaces - and calling women "prudes" when they object.

Bloody Nora! Just read the article about the "dirty protest" at Somerville College after the toilets were made "Gender Neutral" and as part of that the College decided to board up the urinals, presumably to protect privacy.

This bit!

LGBTQ+ Officer, Eilidh Wilson, told Cherwell: “It has been pointed out that the sentiment behind the act of vandalism may not have been one of hatred of transgender people or hostility to gender neutral toilets but rather frustration at the removal of the urinals.

“This seems especially likely considering that the request of the JCR motion that was passed last term mentioned nothing about the removal of urinals. I personally supported keeping the urinals but college made the decision to remove them after the motion was passed.

“Regardless of the motivations of the perpetrator/perpetrators, this act of vandalism comes on the back of an extremely important change to make college, especially the toilets, an inclusive space for trans people.

“It has upset many LGBT students in college and has been received by some as a sign of intolerance and an alarming lack of sensitivity to the experiences of trans people.

“Whoever is behind this is seriously failing to see the bigger picture: the loss of a urinal is simply not as important as trans rights.”

Since the incident, transgender flags have been hung over what was the urinals in a mark of solidarity.

cherwell.org/2018/05/06/dirt-protest-against-somervilles-newly-gender-neutral-toilets/

Complete this sentence!

" . . . . . is simply not as important as trans rights."

I think that deserves a thread of its own!

I agree MsSafina - this is being driven by the sort of men who, after lobbying for or imposing mixed-sex toilets (because they have the authority to do so) are later convicted of sex crimes usually involving children.

If it was a condition of lobbying for mixed sex toilets that you had your hard drive confiscated and scanned by the police this would be nipped in the bud pronto!

There has to be a better solution to the issue raised by LassOfFyvie, ie. a father who needs to accompany a young daughter to the toilet.

This is hardly a frequent occurrence in the grand scheme of things.

Many public toilets now include a loo with baby changing facilities, often directly accessible without having to walk through "The Ladies". That would one option.

Although I would not normally advocate taking over an Accessible Loo for other purposes, I think this would also be a reasonable option in these circumstances too - because they are going to be infrequent.

So maybe we should think about men's boundaries too who don't want to share facilities with women. Most "normal" men I know are not gagging to get into women's changing rooms or toilets. I'd say they'd regard it as weird as we do.

One should take into consideration feelings of men too. I recently went to the V & A members cafe where there are gender neutral toilets and one elderly gentleman told me he was very unhappy and uncomfortable with it while we were both washing our hands!

I object because women and girls are more at risk of sexual assault in mixed sex facilities www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Hmmmm there is a toilet exactly like this at a family attraction we go to in France. You walk in and the urinals are in a square formation to the right. You have to walk past them to go to the cubicles. Which are labeled separately for male and female. However its not called gender neutral its just a toilet. Also all the men basically have there backs to you whilst peeing so you would have to be trying hard to see a penis
I have certainly never seen one. I will admit i was a bit taken aback to start with but only because its not the norm in the uk but i have no problem with it.

Men do sometimes object to their urinals being removed to make gender neutral toilets. And when the men are unhappy, they take more direct action, it seems....

cherwell.org/2018/05/06/dirt-protest-against-somervilles-newly-gender-neutral-toilets/

I am a prude. I do not want to see anyone’s penis unless I am in a relationship with them

When I first joined MN about 4 years ago I posted on a thread about what is the upper age limit for it being ok for parents taking opposite sex children to the loo for the parents' sex.

I said that it was more difficult for fathers of small girls as they would not want to take little girls into gents loos with urinals. It's easier for mothers and small boys.

I was roasted for being stupid , narrow- minded, prudish, it's just a body- what was the problem?

As I said, stop sexualising people going for a pee. Pretty sure you all have gender neutral toilets at home.

1. Unfortunately, men have tended to sexualise toilets, by (and there's evidence of this circulating on twitter today - see thread on this forum) going in for all sorts of unsavoury activities in there which are not the core purpose weeing and pooing ones. Not women's and girls' fault - and we should not be forced to inadvertently witness these when we want to go to our toilets, thanks.

1. Do you think we haven't heard this 'your toilet at home is gender-neutral' false analogy many times before? We don't allow strangers into our toilets at home and certainly don't have a room of cubicles, possibly also urinals, in which strange men can wander and undertake their unsavoury activities (see point 1).

I'm totally fine with being called "prudish" - fending off the queer agenda, which aims to allow unfettered access to children by adults, demands "prudishness". I'd call it 'safeguarding'.

And it never occurred to them that plain old regular men would actually see "gender neutral no urinals"and choose to go in there

They should not have assumed men like urinals. It is not a subject I discuss regularly but I have heard men say they don't like using a urinal beside someone they know- especially a boss or a parent and prefer cubicles.

I am a prude. I do not want to see anyone’s penis unless I am in a relationship with them. I do not want any man to see or hear me use the toilet, and vice versa. I do not give the tiniest of flying fucks if some wet-behind-the-ears kid thinks that’s pathetic, or if it hurts a man’s feelings for any reason.

Somehow "urinals" and "no urinals" are not adequate codes for men and women.

Odd, isn't it. Perhaps we don't need any codes, perhaps we should just stick with 'men' and 'women'.

Pretty sure you all have gender neutral toilets at home

Your own bathroom is not the same as public toilets though is it and I don’t know about your house but chez Lordamighty we go to the loo one at a time.

Have they put sanitary bins into the cubicles in the cubicle and urinal gender neutral loos?

This reminds me of when a man calls a woman frigid for not sleeping with her.

It's exactly like that.

Also what's wrong with being a prude?

This reminds me of when a man calls a woman frigid for not sleeping with her.

If toilets are gender neutral I'll use the one with the shortest queue. I don't think your average man is going to be happy with a queue of women lining up alongside the urinals.
I will also complain to management if toilets are covered in wee, especially if there is no toilet paper.

LOLLassyou are quoting my own post at me. I don't see a single post, mine included, that implies we fear seeing urinals

Are you 14 ? I find it difficult to imagine anyone over 14 using "Lol".

You are the one who started wittering on about a "fear of urinals". I never mentioned it. I said absolutely nothing about your "being afraid of seeing urinals"

You have created a classic straw man argument there- pretending that I said you had a "fear of urinals" - "were afraid of seeing urinals" I said nothing of the kind- but I don't suppose that will stop you making it up.

Sorry mewk, but your posts sound straight out of the paedophile manifesto - are you aware of that?

Whole thread here twitter.com/PankhurstEM/status/991258047468244995

A relevant quote:
It speaks of a cascade effect - to de-stigmatise genitals then nudity then public sexual activity until paedophilia can be cast as the last taboo to loosen.

I believe your posts are attempting the first two. I'm not falling for it. You want to enjoy nudity, go to a nudist beach.

If we are prudes in the UK, thank everything i live in the UK.

And there are many reasons to fear men, hence the establishment of women’s loos and hospital wards in the first place.

The UK is one of the prudest countries to date, creating a narrow mindset for the public to fear the natural human body.

What a load of "queer theory, hey let's break down barriers to nudity" crap. Fuck that. We know your game.

Only one type of man wants to expose his penis to women and children - and they should never be allowed near women and children.

As I said, stop sexualising people going for a pee. Pretty sure you all have gender neutral toilets at home.

Sexualising a man doing something as innocent as peeing is "a bit fucking rapey" if anything.

Its a human body, we all have them. Nothing to be afraid of!