Stephen Whittle accusing GC feminists of being funded by the 'evangelical right wing'

I keep meaning to say that as a lot of right wing evangelicals believe 'men living as women and women living as men' is a sign they're living in (their long awaited) End Days, it seems unlikely they'd side with the very women who think that's a load of ole cobblers!

Over. Compensation.

zebra
That's exactly what I think. When I thought that transsexuals transitioned due to a deep loathing of their bodies, I felt sorry for them - who wouldn't feel sorry for someone who could only feel 'right' after such major changes to their body.

But then I realised that most of these people didn't talk about hating their bodies, they talked about hating the social roles imposed on them because of the type of body they had. Then it just seemed bizarre to me that they would try to change their bodies to fit society rather than trying to change society to accept them the way they are.

Whittle seems to be something else again, though. Whittle seems to loathe and despise women and to think that we all just need to be put in our place and shut up.

Reality remains reality. That's the crux of this. All the fine words of inclusive dogma don't mean shit if you think you have to ape toxic masculine stereotypes or shit all over traumatized women to prove how kind you are.

I must say, whenever I read anything Whittle writes, I get a real anti-women vibe. Almost like this was the reason Whittle rejected womanhood and transitioned.

I tend to find people who don't pretend to be superior and pure to be much better company and much kinder

It's always been so. Puritanism is alive and well in this activism: it's always believed in beating and burning and casting women out through their warped brand of 'love'. Clare Jane Jones mentioned the 'cold dead eyes' of the 'this is for your own good': Mr Murdstone in action. Dickens was taking the mickey out of all this well over a century ago.

As mentioned above, it's rather sad when you see someone in action who has needed to reject themselves so totally that they loathe and despise anything that is associated with it. In this case, females. Whittle sees any female stupid enough to stay female as embracing the hell of disempowerment and suffering they escaped.

I do idly wonder at times that if women just embraced all this and en masse identified out of their oppression and societal role into the gender choice of freedom, power, recognition, choice, privilege (I mean I can enact a 1950s style caricature of a paternalist twit, it's not difficult) if we'd very quickly find that somehow there was this line between those who were permitted that privilege and those who were not.

And that would be biology. Because you cannot identify out of your oppression.

I'm more or less with you, Floral. I find Quakers appealing for their humanist approach, and social awareness. It seems basically kind. I like kindness. However I trip up with the emphasis on commune with the holy spirit over Bible. Faith minus Bible seems unrooted and a bit scary.

I try and live a life I think would please Jesus. I fall short, but that's ok. Not as short as the pastor that suggested I ask a casino if I could have mail delivered there. It did make me laugh. Church doesn't want to help. Go ask the sinners.

I tend to find people who don't pretend to be superior and pure to be much better company and much kinder than the social clubs and businesses that pass for churches.

Detroit, much love to you. FWIW, I've found in feminism so much of the solidarity I had hoped to find in Christianity. Not in a religious sense, but there are so many feminists I know who don't even have any kind of faith, and yet understand the basic principle I thought I had learned in Christianity, that we can be connected by something that means more than all the things we disagree on. I'm still Catholic, but I consider myself a humanist primarily, because the connectedness of our species is something I think should transcend what we believe about metaphysics.

I could not give a damn what Stephen thinks...as long as they don't spread mistruths about the church being helpful to GC women. Good news. The churches either don't give a damn or are hoping trans people boost their attendence and coffers by being embraced as fully women...also the bonus of transing out the gay for these hateful fuckers.

To do it in the name of Jesus is wicked. Wicked.

Floral, Amen sister!

Don't even get me started on the vineyard. Woke beyond woke.

I'm hurt actually...I know a lot of people will respect me less for me, maybe even like me less, but I believe Jesus is my Savior. I believe in the Trinity. Im not a right wing hateful person. I destest the antics of Christians who hide their meanness behind an indefensible twisting of the Bible.

There is no church for me. I don't think ill set foot inside one again. Hypocrites. Nicolaetans. Money grubbers. Judgemental.

for Stephen Whittle to come across this thread and see how the policies SW advocates are affecting vulnerable women.

I can't imagine that SW would care. SW is deeply misogynistic and hates women so much that SW couldn't bear to be one.

I told him to fuck off. Im shameless, I know.

I'll hope for milder weather conditions for you, then, and maybe a run of good luck. And perhaps, for Christmas (please Santa?) for Stephen Whittle to come across this thread and see how the policies SW advocates are affecting vulnerable women.

Sadly, in my experience, Detroit is right. The conservative churches don't really understand DV issues well and often contribute to harm that way, but the progressive churches seem to be completely captured and seem to have swung the pendulum so far in LGBTQ+++ cheerleading, perhaps in reaction to historic church homophobia.

Nope. I won't ask for help again. Im done with the lot of it. I'm not whining. I'm just trying to point out the churches are not funding anyone. Not even women adversely affected by the twaw deal.

In fact one pastor suggested the trans trend and feminization of society was a good thing and I should embrace my trans sisters who were female just like me.

I told him to fuck off. Im shameless, I know.

Detroit, I know it's a long shot, but I wonder if the people who run the Hope Center in Alaska have any contacts in your area who could help? I wouldn't be surprised if they heard from providers around the country while their legal battle was in the news.

www.downtownhopecenter.org
1-907-277-4302
[email protected]

(For those who don't know, the Hope Center recently won a legal battle to keep their overnight services single sex, women only. Background here: www.adflegal.org/hope-center-story)

Detroit I am so sorry. That's awful.
The phrase white washed sepulchres seems appropriate.

I'm in the land of Christian fundamentalists. I am a Christian of the more fluffy kind.

Not ONE church that I have approached for help with my status as homeless due to dv, extended help to me. Not one. I explained I do not have anyone, my trauma is such that I require single sex shelter and help.

I've been admonished and told that they ARE women by church representatives. Told that the feminization of society is a good thing and I should embrace it, that they can't help go ask local non religious services. Refused to even allow me to receive mail at a church.

No church offered me any help, support or Christian kindness. Not one wanted to say that transwomen in women's spaces was wrong.

Not a cent, not an offer of food I can eat (bad medically diagnosed food allergies), not a bit of support. Nothing .

One pastor told me the casino might help.

So no....no help to be found there.

Most church what we believe in sections have a hearty welcome to trans members. Including ones that you would not expect like the Assembly of God. Even churches that proclaim a gender critical outlook in reality are not offering practical help in my experience. Not even allowing mail to be delivered for me. Nice, huh.

I agree with zebra that if I saw someone who looked like Stephen Whittle walking down the street, I'd think they were male.

I also agree with this tbh. The effects testosterone can have on female bodies is quite insane really I think. I would say most transmen who are on testosterone will pass fairly early on. The transmen who do not pass, are those who simply cut hair and wear 'male' clothes, but..of course that does not actually make someone look the opposite sex! Unfortunately for transwomen..hormones don't seem to work the other way around, at all, and males tend to be (very) obviously male, regardless of meds.

I've got a Disrespectful Woman tote bag. It's very useful for the bricks of cash, tbh.

SHOW ME THE MONEY!

I've only had the introductory gift (Sodom & Gomorrah printed tote bag). Must do better next year!

I've been absent so much that I didn't even qualify for the Disrespectful Woman coaster.

I'm never going to qualify for the Mercedes or an all-expenses trip to an evangelical hotel.

I also got a lifetime supply of "women don't have penises" stickers because I was threatened with suspension for posting illegally on the (ex-MP) Phillip Lee webchat. I can heartily recommend the far-right evangelical funded lifestyle.

Hasn't everyone had their massive cheque yet?

I've only had the introductory gift (Sodom & Gomorrah printed tote bag). Must do better next year!

Think of all the pairs of sturdy pyjamas we could buy with our new found fundie wealth! Perhaps enough for all the girl guides in Britain...

nauticant has it. Let's not get over bogged down in the puddle deep analysis that characterizes Transactivism. I agree that sex is nearly always impossible to completely conceal, and also that testosterone affects women enormously when taken as a medication in the manner Trans people do.

But laws and rights shouldn't ever be based on subjective opinions about visual credibility. We should strive, as much as possible, for objectivity, and I really do recommend, whenever Whittle and co. get us dancing a merry dance about fripperies like 'passing' remembering that our focus here is women and girls, their rights and protections, and the trans issue is simply the currently fashionable wedge to pry those rights away from us.