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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Open letter to Dr Polly Carmichael from a former GIDS clinician

70 replies

umbel · 18/07/2019 20:24

Former GIDS clinician speaking out, in detail, with her name and face public. Brava!

medium.com/@kirstyentwistle/an-open-letter-to-dr-polly-carmichael-from-a-former-gids-clinician-53c541276b8d

OP posts:
TheBigBallOfOil · 19/07/2019 07:01

And these are the good guys.
What a world, eh?
I’ve always gone outside state resources for help for DS who has ASD and thank god, had the means to do so. Reading stuff like this convinces me to continue with that policy. But most parents haven’t that option.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 19/07/2019 06:57

It’s a chilling read. This isn’t misguided liberals doing their best, it’s zealous idealists wilfully interpreting things to suit their cult.

In any other situation a silent girl should raise major safeguarding flags, and major trauma including sexual abuse would be considered. Yet, according to this article, at GIDS it has been interpreted as evidence of gender dysfunction.

Not for the first time I’m reminded of The Crucible.

FermatsTheorem · 19/07/2019 06:54

TheRedBarrows the Webberlys have the bare faced cheek to put on their website that they're practising outside the UK due to "transphobia"? Shock Talk about more front than Blackpool.

They had their licences to practice revoked for prescribing off label drugs to children on the basis of sketchy internet "consultations". That's why they're not practising in Britain. Because they're banned from doing so.

TheBigBallOfOil · 19/07/2019 06:52

The piece about lack of verbal communication frightens me. Are these children with ASD and associated communication impairments just being shoved into the medical machine? Please god let that not be true. It’s monstrous.
Extremely courageous to speak out. I wonder if she will receive the courtesy of a response.

TheRedBarrows · 19/07/2019 06:41

Not understanding the ‘Webberleys’ reference I googled, found GenderGp.
“Due to ongoing concerns of transphobia in some public bodies in the UK, all medical services are managed and provided by doctors working outside of the UK.”...
“Many patients are faced with barriers when they are trying to access gender-affirming surgery. Surgeons are often anxious about performing irreversible procedures on patients who may later not achieve their desired outcome and be dissatisfied with their results. ”...
“We can refer you to people who can make low cost assessments and referrals for surgery.”

Again transphobia is cited: Duty of care is a barrier?

Dr Entwhistle is raising crucial ethical issues in a context of the wider provision.

AncientLights · 18/07/2019 23:56

I was surprised to read how many of the kids referred to them live in poverty: I supposed I'd imagined they would be the precursors to the blue-haired uni students.

Old Joss Prior got in there with the usual snide & ill-informed comments Joss is given to making.

Manderleyagain · 18/07/2019 23:20

That was disturbing, and important. I hope there is a proper response. There really has to be now.
If anyone is on medium, I'm sure a few supportive comments to balance out the lovely one from joss prior would be appreciated.
It sounds like she has mainly been thinking about this on her own, and reading stuff online. There are some other psychologists who are speaking out about this. I hope she gets in contact with them.

OvaHere · 18/07/2019 23:12

That's particularly worrying about the verbal communication. My DS has an ASD and has a lot of difficulty with verbal communication especially in a therapeutic/official/public setting.

He has had CAMHS appointments for the last ten years and I can count on one hand the amount of times he has spoken to or made eye contact with a clinician (partly because appts are infrequent so no rapport is built up). The SEN team at school have had more success but it's taken a number of years for him to be comfortable enough around them.

If any of these children are on the spectrum I can easily imagine that being one explanation.

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 18/07/2019 23:12

Christ this is shocking. You are very brave. How can they keep shrugging off the allegations.

SarahTancredi · 18/07/2019 23:00

Kirsty

Whatever happens, you are incredibly brave. And I want to say thank you.

It terrifies me beyond belief what is happening to children. Kids who need love support and help to deal with whatever they have been.through.

Every day I hope that today is the day this crap ends.

Yeahnahyeah · 18/07/2019 22:50

In terms of complexity I also had on my caseload several young people who declined to communicate verbally or communicated verbally to a very limited extent. I think that at GIDS verbal communication difficulties are often minimised as transmales being afraid to speak because they have a ‘feminine voice’ but in all of these cases I believe that there was something more complex than that going on. Again, it’s very difficult to undertake a gender identity assessment with a young person who struggles to communicate verbally, especially within the time constraints of the service.

The whole ideology will spin anything. Anything. Girls being non verbal is due to not wanting to use their feminine voice? WTAF.

KTara · 18/07/2019 22:43

SIDS = sudden infant death syndrome

So you would need another acronym - I think that is the point Macareaux is making.

InsulatedCup · 18/07/2019 22:25

Brave person Kirsty - thank you.

I am hoping that the adult service will also take note of the complexity of the cases they are seeing, especially in the 17-25 year olds

JackyHolyoake · 18/07/2019 22:20

I take your point Jacky although SIDS of course has another meaning.

Sex does not equal gender:

Sex = female; gender = learned stereotyped behaviours described as feminine / femininity

Sex = male; gender = learned stereotyped behaviours described as masculine / masculinity

Sex relates to gametes:

Female sex supplies the large gamete

Male sex supplies the small gamete

popehilarious · 18/07/2019 22:19

wow. Hope this doesn't get brushed aside.

Macareaux · 18/07/2019 22:14

I take your point Jacky although SIDS of course has another meaning.

JackyHolyoake · 18/07/2019 22:14

GIDS needs to rename itself as SIDS: Sex Identity Development Service.

JackyHolyoake · 18/07/2019 22:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JackyHolyoake · 18/07/2019 22:12

I suppose it depends on your definition of transgender, but surely there is no such thing as a transgender child?

In UK, there is no definition of a "transgender child. There is no such person as a "transgender child". There is no such thing as " gender dysphoria". This description is a misnomer. Any "dysphoria" that may be experienced is related to the sex of a person in such a circumstance.

Thingybob · 18/07/2019 22:03

Wow such a courageous stand to take. Thank-you Kirsty.

Mumfun · 18/07/2019 22:02

Have found that letter very upsetting.

It must have been even more upsetting to work in GIDS under those conditions where proper professional assessment and therapy was not being supported. Thanks for speaking out Kirsty Flowers

OrchidInTheSun · 18/07/2019 22:02

Thank you Popchyk. I don't know why I did not think of that Blush

Popchyk · 18/07/2019 21:57

The way she talks about those girls who won't even speak.

And their silence used against them as evidence that they are transgender.

nettie434 · 18/07/2019 21:55

It's an extremely powerful letter. I found the bit about children who had been abused and disadvantaged incredibly distressing. Kirsty Flowers

NotTerfNorCis · 18/07/2019 21:50

Bit of a sidetrack, but on the subject of children 'knowing' they are in the wrong body and being very convincing about it, apparently there are some children who 'know'' they have been reincarnated. Is the wrong-body belief any more credible than the reincarnation belief?

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