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Original poster

Changing Room Silliness In A Primark Store

61 replies

SunsetBeetch · 17/07/2019 21:06

This twitter thread makes me want to tear my hair out. Wtf?! I hope the tweeter gets some answers.

twitter.com/claireOT/status/1151574652231311362?s=19

I just had a fascinating conversation @Primark. The assistant at the entrance to the female changing room was a man. I said to him: “this seems unusual, is it considered ok to place a male (customer assistant) in this role?”

He responded “sure. All our changing rooms are now unisex, and male and female assistants are available everywhere”
Is this correct, @Primark?

I checked “are you saying that men can choose to enter this changing room, where teenaged girls are trying on clothes?”
He replied “no, not if they want to try on ‘men’s clothes’” @Primark

I asked “so if they want to try on an item from the women’s department, they can enter the changing rooms, where teenaged girls are in a state of undress?” @primark

“Yes” he replied. “If they want to wear women’s clothes, they can come in. Not if they’re the husbands or boyfriends or Dads of girls that are changing. And not, you know, getting dressed up for a Stag Do” @Primark

“So staff are left to decide which men are bringing clothes into here because they want to be with their daughters, or because it’s funny, and stop them. But men that are not related, and bringing clothes in, and it’s not funny, they’re allowed?” @primark

“So staff are expected to examine the internal motivation of a man, when he attempts to enter here, and let some through, and refuse others? This seems like a silly and dangerous rule, to me” @Primark

I asked “Do @Primark know how much business they will lose, when women realise that their daughters cannot be kept safe in these changing rooms, and stop them from shopping here?” I’d love to know the answer to this question

OP posts:
FeministCat · 18/07/2019 14:15

If a teen was going in they can take care of themselves.

Really? How is a young teenage girl going to “take care of (themselves)” against an adult male?

Datun · 18/07/2019 14:10

I don’t like this, the Primark I go to has curtains and there’s always a gap at the side.

I mean, apart from anything else, how bloody hard is it to get curtains that fit. It's the easiest thing in the world. Lots of rings, lots of material, not difficult.

Siameasy · 18/07/2019 13:42

I don’t like this, the Primark I go to has curtains and there’s always a gap at the side.

Childrenofthestones · 18/07/2019 13:07

It's the same in M&S now.
Having said that, prior to the new rules , I've had a women whip the curtain open on me in M&S men's changing facilities while looking for her husband to give him some cords to try on. No apology, just a look of irritation because I wasn't George.
The new rules just give pervs and arseholes free rein.

Deathraystare · 18/07/2019 12:54

I found the manger and he said there was nothing he could do. It's appalling.

I would have asked loudly why he was doing it and did he not know it looked pervy - filming yoiung girls like that (even if they were ok with it it is still not on).

WomanBornNotWorn · 18/07/2019 12:02

I had first hand reminder a few months back that at my age I'm still not able to take care of myself when frightened by a predatory man. What are teen girls supposed to do ... ?

OneEndedStick · 18/07/2019 00:17

Thing is, even if women did have a sincerity perception radar, so that we could always tell the True Innocent Trans males from the ones who just get kicks from imposing their presence on women in female areas, it wouldn't make a spot of difference because men have no fucks to give for what we say anyhow. They'll either not believe us, or they'll say we shouldn't be believed.

Just like now, when nothing we say, no evidence we present, is "valid" enough... apparently.. to warrant accepting that may be we have a point. Because men know the "real truth" and the "real reason" we say anything at any given time.

Datun · 18/07/2019 00:03

jacky - If they are letting in some men (those trying on women's clothes), but not others, isn't that discrimination on the basis of sex?

Original poster
SunsetBeetch · 17/07/2019 23:50

Sarahjconnor

I was in Topshop in Leeds 6months ago and a bearded man was sat on a sofa with his phone pointing towards a changing room 2 girls were larking around in. They were coming in and out in various silly outfits- a bikini with a fur coat etc and he was blatantly filming them. I told the staff member, a young Muslim woman, and she looked teary and couldn't meet my eye. I found the manger and he said there was nothing he could do. It's appalling..

WTAF. It's also appalling that the staff know it's wrong, but can't do anything about it. I'd hate to be in their position (also the embarrassed young man manning the women's changing room).

What an absolute shit show.

OP posts:
LassOfFyvie · 17/07/2019 23:47

I told the staff member, a young Muslim woman, and she looked teary and couldn't meet my eye. I found the manger and he said there was nothing he could do. It's appalling

The manager didn't need to be backed up by the Equally Act. He had every right to ask this man to put his phone away.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 17/07/2019 23:46

Pipandmum

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3639807-Fancy-sharing-a-changing-room-toilet-with-this-charmer

Ongoing thread and more recent than one of my examples, one of my examples was from before all these changing rooms start becoming unisex. So if it happened then what happens now? It makes it easier for perverts to access women and children.

scotsheather · 17/07/2019 23:38

it’s not most peoples default thought that man equals harm.

no its nothing to do with really. Put simply changing facilities are SEX segregated for a reason, privacy and dignity. And it makes a mockery if "some" men are allowed to break this arrangement.

JackyHolyoake · 17/07/2019 23:03

I was in Topshop in Leeds 6months ago and a bearded man was sat on a sofa with his phone pointing towards a changing room 2 girls were larking around in. They were coming in and out in various silly outfits- a bikini with a fur coat etc and he was blatantly filming them. I told the staff member, a young Muslim woman, and she looked teary and couldn't meet my eye. I found the manger and he said there was nothing he could do. It's appalling.

Lawyers for @Topshop maybe need to study in forensic detail the UK Equality Act 2010, including Schedule 3, sections 26, 27 and 28 and their associated Explanatory Notes.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3/part/7

and the Explanatory Notes:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

[Beyond all this perhaps all these lawyers actually need to study the UK Equality Act 2010 in its entirety?]

EndoplasmicReticulum · 17/07/2019 23:02

So, if the Primark changing rooms are separating people on the basis of which department they are picking up the clothes from.....does that mean if I want to try on a pair of men's jeans I need to go in the male changing rooms? (I do often buy clothes from the men's section because I'm too big for most of the lady clothes).

Should I try that next time? Not sure I'd want to tbh.

OhtheHillsareAlive · 17/07/2019 22:59

If a teen was going in they can take care of themselves

Frankly, I know I couldn't have 'taken care' of myself if confronted with a man in a women's changing room when I was 15. I"m not even sure that at 4 times that age, I would be able to challenge a man in a woman's changing room.

OhtheHillsareAlive · 17/07/2019 22:56

When men stop raping and murdering women and girls we’ll stop seeing them as potential harm

Indeed.

Or when women & girls are invested with magical powers so that we can distinguish the men who intend to rape/abuse/murder from the men who don't before they rape/abuse/murder us.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 17/07/2019 22:56

That's unbearably dumb. Changing rooms segregated by whether the clothes are pink or blue rather than whether the people wearing them are men or women? Have everyone's brains fallen out?

I tried on a few bras in Primark last week and was surprised myself to see a young man (late teens/ early 20s) manning the changing room. He looked utterly mortified. But I did think that a teenage girl would have felt very uncomfortable going past him with an arm full of bras!

JackyHolyoake · 17/07/2019 22:46

That the line must be drawn according to what ... department the clothes come from...

Yup! And given that so-called "gender identity" has zero meaning in any UK law this is blatant disregard of the protective provisions for women and children contained within the Equality Act 2010.

Such businesses seem to be unaware of the definitions in the Equality Act 2010:

woman = a female of any age [ie: including female children which, in law, means those aged under 18 years]

man = a male of any age [ie: including male children which, in law, means those aged under 18 years]

See also the GRA 2004 which is explicit about the adult age limit being 18 years and beyond:

1 Applications
(1) A person of either gender who is aged at least 18 may make an application for
a gender recognition certificate on the basis of—
(a) living in the other gender, or
(b) having changed gender under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/1

Beyond this neither "transgender", gender identity", "gender" nor "non-binary" has any meaning / definition in any current UK statute.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 17/07/2019 22:30

Hello Pipandmum

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2017/02/10/mum-catches-man-filming-her-trying-on-bras-in-asda-changing-rooms-6439676/amp/

www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/730049/Voyeur-filmed-woman-changing-room-claimed-cleaning-skirting-board/amp

Of course NAMALT.
Could I ask your opinion on swimming pools having gender neutral changing rooms?
Can teenage girls look after themselves in that situation too?

popehilarious · 17/07/2019 22:25

The specificity of the "logic" of the policy is what I find a bit bizarre. Like (assuming the assistant was correct) they have actually questioned "hmm, what if..." for various scenarios... and this is what they considered the correct result. That the line must be drawn according to what...department the clothes come from... Confused

JackyHolyoake · 17/07/2019 22:17

But surely stores don't have to operate a single sex policy for changing rooms? I think they're mad not to, I won't use mixed sex changing rooms but if a store thinks that's the way to go, I imagine that's not unlawful in itself. Or is that wrong?

They leave themselves in the position of a charge via the Harassment clauses in UK Equality Act 2010. They also leave themselves in the position of facilitating charges via the Sexual Offences Act 2003.

Either way, it is not a positive position for any business operating in the UK to ignore the fullest extent of the protective provisions in the UK Equality Act 2010 for women and children.

The alternative is to view such businesses as acting against the interests of women and children.

Sarahjconnor · 17/07/2019 22:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AncientLights · 17/07/2019 22:08

But surely stores don't have to operate a single sex policy for changing rooms? I think they're mad not to, I won't use mixed sex changing rooms but if a store thinks that's the way to go, I imagine that's not unlawful in itself. Or is that wrong?

JackyHolyoake · 17/07/2019 21:57

Jacky what would we be without you.

Maybe only a little less informed about relevant UK law here Wink