Feminists only claim to care about lesbians in order to justify transphobia

Everyone has to drop some feminist theories because loads of them contradict each other, because there are many different feminist approaches.

@thirdfiddle

I see what you're saying. That the trans stuff is what makes you see a need for feminism, and is what draws you to feminism.
It happened similar to me but about 13 years ago or so.
But trans is just one aspect of feminism, there are other solid feminist theories and I'm just not sure we can cherry pick the bits of feminism we like and drop the bits we don't like, that don't align with , for example, our right wing values .

Like the person laughing at the feminist theory that marriage is prostitution.

Third fiddle, I agree. I had no idea how many people believed in gender stereotypes until the trans issue came along.

like the feminist theory that heterosexual marriage is prostitution.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

That’s a very narrow group of people though. The vast majority of people are not right wing on everything, left wing on everything or feminist on everything.

I'm not right wing, usually centre to left; but wouldn't have described myself as feminist exactly before all this came up. That was because I felt the best route towards equality for this society in this time was drawing less distinction between men and women instead of drawing attention to them as separate groups.

Woman wasn't and isn't a large part of my identity, it was just a biological description, relevant when biology is relevant.

The transgender issue has changed that. Firstly it has highlighted how rampant sexism still is. And secondly it is directly contradicting my biological understanding of the term woman. If I accepted genderist ideology that would mean accepting I am not a woman. And there is no longer a term for that useful biological grouping. It's plain absurd.

So I am now identifying as a feminist because now I see it's still needed.

As for supporting lesbians unfortunately my lesbian friends are completely stonewall - washed and don't want my support on this issue. I'm very into logic and fairness so the obvious unfairness of not allowing sexual orientation and female sport categories grates massively. But basically the whole philosophy is dead in the water for me at the point they can't define what a woman is any more.

Some feminists are right wing. That’s always been the case.

True. So I'm not talking about those women

I'm talking about women who uphold right wing values that happen to coincide with feminist values but actually aren't feminist at all

I suppose there would be other areas too, like the feminist theory that heterosexual marriage is prostitution. You don't hear much criticism of her marriage by women who do criticize porn and prostitution, where I see all of them as selling out.
Not judging,I've been in a heterosexual marriage myself, I know why women do it but when women who dont criticize marriage do criticize prostitution then that's not a feminist that's a right wing woman

NAMALT

What does that mean? I know it stands for Not All Men Are Like That, but don't understand it in relation to 'women on MN not doing feminism properly'.

Some feminists are right wing. That’s always been the case.

Yeah? Which basic feminist things are women here not on board with?

NAMALT

sakura184
Slightly off topic but I see quite a lot of women on here are anti feminist when it comes to some basic things.

Examples please. And do you mean all of MN or FWR specifically?

sakura184
Slightly off topic but I see quite a lot of women on here are anti feminist when it comes to some basic things but are fully on board with anti-trans , anti- pornstitution.

Yeah? Which basic feminist things are women here not on board with?

Sorry, this first para should be bolded. I'm replying to sakura184.

I'm not saying we don't have different opinions, I'm saying it looks as though right wingers are jumping on the coattails of feminist energy

Slightly off topic but I see quite a lot of women on here are anti feminist when it comes to some basic things but are fully on board with anti-trans , anti- pornstitution.

What's pornstitution? And for the umpteenth time, gender critical feminists are not "anti-trans", we're fighting for the rights of women and girls. If so many prominent TRAs weren't also anti-woman activists there wouldn't be the conflict.

Feminists support prostituted women. Trying to make it look like a job like any other only works if women are also being trafficked into accountancy or teaching. Prostitution is very dangerous. No other work exposes the employee to body fluids or abuse. I've just been to the dentist. She's all gloved up, and her assistant is too. Saying prostitution is a job like any other just isn't true.

So straight feminist women should not show solidarity with lesbians?

But a butch lesbian diva can show solidarity with transwomen.

Slightly off topic but I see quite a lot of women on here are anti feminist when it comes to some basic things but are fully on board with anti-trans , anti- pornstitution.

Yes, we all have different opinions.

A "friend" of mine posted it too, wonder if it's the same person. I didn't want to click on it. It's disappointing when you find people who you thought were solid feminists supporting this crap. I've been on the verge of unfollowing for a while.

Slightly off topic but I see quite a lot of women on here are anti feminist when it comes to some basic things but are fully on board with anti-trans , anti- pornstitution.

They strike me as right wingers. And all the hand wringing about lesbians does strike me as being out of place when the same women are so NAMALT and what about the men on other feminist topics

These "it never happened to me so it doesn't exist" people are a pain in the hole.

It's never happened to me, but I know it's happening to other women, so I'll try to support them. Just as I know that the Dalit in India are abused and oppressed, and would support them if I lived there. Just as I know that there are oil pipelines being forcibly laid across Dakota and the locals have an online presence so it's possible to support them.

It is possible than ever before to read up on stuff if you're not convinced, and see what the people themselves are saying about their lives.

Same thoughts as Red, we aren't two separate groups.

Feminists only claim to care about lesbians in order to justify transphobia

I'm sorry I'm stuck on the cognitive dissonance in that statement which suggests that feminists are a separate group from lesbians.

It's saying lesbians can't be feminists and care about their own rights and well being.

Which is quite the thing.

Not only that but it's literally erasing the life experience of a whole bunch of lesbians!

Quite amazing and demonstrating an enormous amount lack of self awareness.

with no coherent ground they agree on

Other than 'down with women, especially the ones with boundaries who say no', obvs. That's one the whole movement is behind.

I thought anyway they'd decided that women with boundaries (aka transphobic) aren't feminist anyway? And what about the many, many feminists who 'claim to care about lesbians' who actually are lesbian and l (gb) T themselves?

The wheels are long since off, the narrative is getting openly battier and more incoherent by the day. And it's unfortunate that each individual piece of lunacy contradicts other pieces of lunacy because it makes it look like this movement (at least the visible bits of it in the media) really does consist of wall to wall nut jobs with no coherent ground they agree on.