Feminists only claim to care about lesbians in order to justify transphobia

@JackyHolyoake

Just wanted to say thank you for always painstakingly quoting the law on here, especially where posters have misunderstood it.

I am archiving all your posts for when the inevitable happens in the school where I work.

There’s no indication of how representative that report is. Get the L out have made their anti trans views clear and have been disowned by most lesbians.

None of that legislation you quote states that TW should be told to use male toilets. If you asked the ehrc directly if TW should be told that, what do you think they would say? I think we know the answer.

1 The coercion by these males is aimed at the younger lesbians who are coming to terms with their sexuality. It is these young women we aim to protect from such corruption of their sexuality by men.

1. No evidence that this is common but if it is I’ll certainly be calling it out.

Download the report published here: www.gettheloutuk.com/blog/category/research/lesbians-at-ground-zero.html

2 UK law provides for men in all their forms to be excluded from toilets designated for females.

2. TW can (legally) use female toilets and you can’t stop them. They’re public toilets, not your toilets. You don’t decide who goes in them. You can go in, do your business, and mind your own business. That’s about it mate.

This is incorrect. See case law: [paras 70 onward] www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5b46f1fa2c94e0775e7ef4e3

and [paras 63 - 68] www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff7bb60d03e7f57eb1a1f

See also Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, section 26 [separate services for the sexes]; section 27 [single sex services] and section 28 [gender reassignment]

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3

Women are asserting their boundaries and will continue so to do.

Page 17 the ehrc makes it clear that trans person should be treated as the gender (I agree that’s a bit problematic I don’t really like gender either) they present unless very good reason not to. I think most people would consider toilet use reasonable.

But what about that "IT'S MA'AM" guy? Who had a massive hissy for because everyone in the shop kept calling him sir.

He presented as a hulking male but on closer inspection he had pink trainers on

Page 17 the ehrc makes it clear that trans person should be treated as the gender (I agree that’s a bit problematic I don’t really like gender either) they present unless very good reason not to. I think most people would consider toilet use reasonable.

The EHRC appears to be unaware of current case law which clearly states that unless a GRC is possessed by the person concerned, a male who is at any stage in the "transition" process must be treated the same as all other males. Ditto for females.

Possession of a GRC is verifiable by checking the person's Birth Certificate [driving licence or passport are both insufficient as evidence because a GRC is not required to change either of these].

See paras 70 onward here from a 2003 case:

www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5b46f1fa2c94e0775e7ef4e3

and again in 2013 [after GRA became law [see paras 63 - 68]

www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff7bb60d03e7f57eb1a1f

My 72 year old mum got 'hit on' in a supermarket a couple of weeks back.

I don't think it ever fully stops, though perhaps the pool of harassers gets smaller as (sweeping generalisation alert) men tend to disregard women older then themselves.

What age is old enough not to be harassed? I’m mid 40’s and it hasn’t stopped yet.

*wacademia
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For this reason, I can't wait to get old. As I remarked to a colleague on Monday who asked how my weekend had gone, the days elapsed since I was last sexually assaulted in a public space can currently be counted on one hand.

Hopefully old is better, yes. But I do hear of news items about elderly women getting raped by young men, usually in their homes during a break in.

Fieldofgreycorn
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That was a man, presenting as a man. Not a TW and nothing to do with trans people. I think it’s pretty unpleasant to conflate.

How do you know how he self ID'd?

like the restaurant recently mentioned on FWR where a teen girl was protected from rape by the staff enforcing toilet sex segregation against her attacker who had followed her into the loos)

That was a man, presenting as a man. Not a TW and nothing to do with trans people. I think it’s pretty unpleasant to conflate.

In the workplace, women are entitled to single-sex or else single-occupant loos by a law called the Workplace (Health Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992, look in provision 20 where it talks about men and women having separate "sanitary conveniences". A woman is defined under the Equality Act 2010 as a "female of any age". We know that transwomen with GRCs should normally be treated as women, but there is no legislation that I'm aware of allowing pre-/non-GRC transwomen to use women's workplace loos.

Page 17 the ehrc makes it clear that trans person should be treated as the gender (I agree that’s a bit problematic I don’t really like gender either) they present unless very good reason not to. I think most people would consider toilet use reasonable.
www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/what-equality-law-means-for-your-business-2018.pdf

Frankly, I'm in awe of the strength of so many women who speak out on this issue. Particularly lesbians, who despite everything, are sticking their necks out and being accused of transphobia and gatekeeping, plus being called vagina fetishists for refusing to sleep with male bodied people.

Lesbian academics have been threatened and abused and their jobs have been put at risk. Knowing these facts doesn't make me transphobic, it just strengthens my resolve to be the best ally that I can.

The author is entirely disingenuous.

In the US Planned Parenthood are, or at least were at one point, running workshops entitled 'Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling'. I know this as someone who is neither a lesbian nor a woman who has ever particularly considered myself a feminist.

If I, a working class woman who has never and probably will never read any feminist theory, who isn't involved in LGB circles and who doesn't have any family members or close friends who are lesbians, am aware of this why the hell doesn't the author know?

If I know Mitchfest was closed down by trans privilege activists, one of whom is now awaiting trial for the triple homicide of a lesbian couple and their adopted son, why the hell doesn't the author?

If I know there are thousands upon thousands of threats directed at lesbians online why does the author not?

I have no particular reason to know these things. I am just a working class woman who has never thought men can be women and who is primarily concerned about the vulnerable people I work with. The elderly people with dementia, the learning disabled people, the children. Yet I know this stuff.

I don't believe the author doesn't know. I believe she is choosing to ignore. For personal gain.

I don't care if she calls herself feminist. I don't care who she is sexually attracted to. She is a horrible person.

I got the impression that the author only knows lesbians over 30. Of course someone in her position is not going to be targeted

It’s pretty bad for ones coming of age now, from those I know. My sister had to deal with a lot of aggression and dick pics when she was trying to “date while lesbian,” there was no easy way to say “I’m homo!” and be left alone. There was pressure to “just give it (lady dick) a try, otherwise how can you say for sure?”

But since she settled down and left the whole GBT scene behind it’s much better (from what I see).

DIVA et al is

re the teen protected from rape by the single-sex loo policy enforcement in a restaurant: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3627067-My-daughter-was-assaulted-tonight-why-Im-against-self-ID

emerence Actually, being old doesn't work perfectly, my mum was over sixty when she and I were both propositioned for blowjobs by two young men. Disability doesn't work perfectly either... www.vibe.com/2019/01/woman-gives-birth-in-coma-after-rape

Anyone up for founding a womyn's land type of shared estate?

This strikes a chord with me as an ageing heterosexual. Funnily enough men are so nice nowadays, don't follow me down dark alleys

For this reason, I can't wait to get old. As I remarked to a colleague on Monday who asked how my weekend had gone, the days elapsed since I was last sexually assaulted in a public space can currently be counted on one hand.

I've been musing on the woman who wrote this drivel and other older butch lesbians supporting their trans 'lesbian' sisters. They all come out with "It hasn't happened to me so hasn't happened blah blah blah"

This strikes a chord with me as an ageing heterosexual. Funnily enough men are so nice nowadays, don't follow me down dark alleys, in fact, zero threatening behaviour and I sometimes forget that young women are still being subjected to the same old shit.

TW can (legally) use female toilets and you can’t stop them.

For customer toilets, it's up to the toilet provider to decide whether to enforce single-sex divisions. Some do (and get lobbied not to by TRAs, what a surprise) like the restaurant recently mentioned on FWR where a teen girl was protected from rape by the staff enforcing toilet sex segregation against her attacker who had followed her into the loos) most rely on an honesty system, and some have explicitly unisex loos.

In the workplace, women are entitled to single-sex or else single-occupant loos by a law called the Workplace (Health Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992, look in provision 20 where it talks about men and women having separate "sanitary conveniences". A woman is defined under the Equality Act 2010 as a "female of any age". We know that transwomen with GRCs should normally be treated as women, but there is no legislation that I'm aware of allowing pre-/non-GRC transwomen to use women's workplace loos. IANAL but I don't think you are either, lawyers IME cite the legislation and case law supporting their assertions about what is and isn't legal, and you haven't done that.

Aspley there's nothing wrong with you.

I remember the aversion I faced from classmates when I came out as female-attracted (at first I thought I was lesbian, then later on realised I was bi). This was under section 28, so no education nor support about it. I was lucky in that my parents told me that same-sex attraction existed and said they would accept my sibling and me no matter how we turned out.

I'm despairing and utterly horrified that lesbian teens with less-tolerant parents will turn to their Stonewall-briefed school or the LGBT "community" for support and be told that they should accept males as partners if that male identifies as a woman. Don't girls' boundaries matter?

It is IMO absolutely natural for feminists to defend the rights of lesbians to say no to dick, including dicks attached to transwomen. As it is natural for feminists to defend the rights of wives to say no to dick, including their husband's dick if not in the mood and without having to claim a headache. And girl children to have it presumed, always, until they reach adulthood, that they don't want dick. And prostituted women to say no to dick, including the dick of a dodgy punter, without getting beaten up for it.

The common thread here is saying no to male entitlement and yes to female bodily integrity. This applies to anyone born with a vulva, so duh yeah that includes lesbians.

1 The coercion by these males is aimed at the younger lesbians who are coming to terms with their sexuality. It is these young women we aim to protect from such corruption of their sexuality by men.

2 UK law provides for men in all their forms to be excluded from toilets designated for females.

Women are asserting their boundaries and will continue so to do.

1. No evidence that this is common but if it is I’ll certainly be calling it out.

1. TW can (legally) use female toilets and you can’t stop them. They’re public toilets, not your toilets. You don’t decide who goes in them. You can go in, do your business, and mind your own business. That’s about it mate.

sakura184: Being nice has got us nowhere

Listening to others isn't "being nice". It's trying to understand what they believe. We can't rebut their arguments if we don't listen to them first. We can't expose the cotton ceiling as male sexual entitlement if we don't read what TRAs are saying about coercing access to lesbian women's bodies. We can't expose the lesbian erasure inherent in telling a lesbian that she's attracted to feminine presentation instead of people with female bodies if we don't listen to Rapey Riley J Dennis's godawful videos about "genital preferences".

We have to respond to TRAs' actual arguments, not straw TRAs the.way they misrepresent our views and attack straw radfems. This means we have to listen.

OP: lol at the idea that we don't care about lesbians. At the WPUK meeting I went to, there were LOADS of lesbians in the audience (and the pub afterwards). Many of us ARE lesbians.

@FloralBunting
Exactly the same here. I spent a long time thinking there was something wrong with me for being so repelled by male bodies and especially penises. My church school upbringing and homophobic family didn't help.
Now, when I come out I am faced with the same homophobia - again there is something wrong with me if I am not attracted to males and their penises.
It is so ridiculous I often struggle to believe it - then I check out a dating app and the latest members of the lesbian online group I am in and it is immediately very real again.

The problem lesbians have is that no one of any influence from Stonewall down is doing anything for lesbians right now.
The only online site that isn't full of tips telling lesbians how to give blowjobs is AfterEllen and they are constantly attacked for prioritising lesbian (and bi women) only content. I agree that some feminists probably don't particularly care about lesbians and are using us as a group as a tool but the majority are not and there are are a significant number of lesbian feminists involved.
Denying there is an issue between lesbians and the males who think their are lesbians is most of the problem and could be easily solved but all the main LGBT+ groups ar running scared or have been taken over by trans activists.