Feminists only claim to care about lesbians in order to justify transphobia

I mean, literally, that UWE poster said "don't challenge". It doesn't give a list of exemptions when we can challenge. It doesn't say "don't challenge, unless the person is a beardy bloke in a three-piece suit and tie using the ladies". It doesn't say "don't challenge, unless a dodgy bloke with a tampon fetish has followed a ten-year-old girl into the loo". That poster is literally placing the feelz of males above the safety of females.

Yes, that, wacademia. Very clearly explained.

If someone presents as a man, with a beard etc and starts claiming or I-Ding as a ‘woman’ and using female toilets I don’t think society will accept that at all. Such a person would still be challenged following a girl into toilet.

Self-ID enshrined in law will mean that no, such a person will not be challenged because to do so puts the challenger at risk of being charged with a hate crime. For the rest, you're basically saying 'this will never happen' which is not much of an argument given that there are depressingly high numbers of threads on here showing how often it does happen - again and again and again.

Either you truly are as ill-informed as your posts seem to suggest or you are being deliberately obtuse.

like the restaurant recently mentioned on FWR where a teen girl was protected from rape by the staff enforcing toilet sex segregation against her attacker who had followed her into the loos)

That was a man, presenting as a man. Not a TW and nothing to do with trans people. I think it’s pretty unpleasant to conflate.

Alex Drummond is a bearded trans lesbian who wears typical male clothing. How are we to tell the difference between Drummond and a would-be rapist? We can't. So yes, it is relevant to how bystanders see trans people.

I will go through the likely thought process of the bystander and staff in the restaurant case.

NOW, IN RESTAURANT:

1. Clearly male-bodied person making no attempt to pass follows teen girl into ladies' loos
2. Bystander sees this and thinks "that's not right" and gets staff
3. Staff intervene
4. Male-bodied person is interrupted by staff mid-grope before he rapes the girl

NOW, IN UNIVERSITIES:

1. Clearly male-bodied person making no attempt to pass follows teen girl into ladies' loos
2. Bystander sees this and thinks "that's not right" and gets staff
3. Staff say "sorry, we can't stop males from entering the women's loos, it's against policy and we like not being fired"
4. Male-bodied person is not interrupted and rapes teen girl

IN FIVE YEARS TIME OR LESS, EVERYWHERE, UNLESS WE STOP THIS NONSENSE NOW:

1. Clearly male-bodied person making no attempt to pass follows teen girl into ladies' loos
2. Bystander sees this and thinks "that's not right"
3. Bystander then thinks "hang on, that might be one of those bearded trans lesbians I've read about in the paper, I'd bettee stay quiet because being accused of transphobia could cost me my job and get me doxxed"
4. Bystander does nothing
5. Male-bodied person is not interrupted and rapes teen girl

This is why women are scared, we can see how this works. Entitled selfish males like Alex Drummond, who are in appearance and attitude are identical to all other entitled males, have caused this fear by creating an environment where we cannot tell a transwoman from a man and will be censured for trying to, even as part of a good-faith attempt to make protect women and girls

This is why I, a university employee, am seriously looking to quit the sector even though I love my job and am proud of my work in STEM education. I one day may have to choose between safeguarding women and girls and having a job, because I am not supposed to challenge a male in the loos even if I see one of our primary aged outreach girls walk into the loo followed by a male making no attempt to pass as a transwoman. It hasn't happened yet but I think it's only a matter of time. I hope that when it does happen, I will have the courage to do the right thing.

Oooh, how transphobic to suggest that someone is presenting as a man if they have a beard.

And a hashtag. Tres progressive. Devastatingly effective point.

If someone presents as a man, with a beard etc and starts claiming or I-Ding as a ‘woman’ and using female toilets I don’t think society will accept that at all.

What, like Alex Drummond? What defines ‘presenting as a man’?

#LwiththeT

What is a lesbian?

Can you give a definition please?

#LwiththeT

Depends what you mean by "trans woman". It's quite a broad term. Please define your terms. Because actually the majority of people don't consider it reasonable, when you spell out that you often mean a male person who has not had genital surgery.

For toilet purposes you can’t start specifying exact genitalia. If someone presents as a man, with a beard etc and starts claiming or I-Ding as a ‘woman’ and using female toilets I don’t think society will accept that at all. Such a person would still be challenged following a girl into toilet.

That isn’t what the GRA or EQ act is about, it’s not taking it in the spirit intended. Neither is trying to ban all TW from female toilets.

I think the point is "Lesbians? I don't believe the ones saying this is a problem. So shut up."

One of those.

With a side order of "Boundaries? Ha! You're not allowed them, tough shit."

I think the point is "Lesbians? I don't believe the ones saying this is a problem. So shut up."

Exactly what point is it that you are trying to make in this thread, please? I'm a bit confused about what you are trying to say here.

I’ve just read the thread & I’m not sure either.

Yeah that Julie Bindel. Fucking hates lesbians, I heard. Bloody feminists.

Fieldofgreycorn

Exactly what point is it that you are trying to make in this thread, please? I'm a bit confused about what you are trying to say here.

You seem to have gaps in your knowledge about the UK law that is the Equality Act 2010 plus its relationship with the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

[Do you live in the UK?]

I think most people would consider toilet use reasonable.

Depends what you mean by "trans woman". It's quite a broad term. Please define your terms. Because actually the majority of people don't consider it reasonable, when you spell out that you often mean a male person who has not had genital surgery.

Field but how do you know they were a man and not a TW? Genuine question. If TW like Danielle Muscato and JY use the female toilets (as they do), how can you tell by looking at someone?

I suppose I don’t for sure but assume that would have been mentioned when it was discussed. You’ve got to admit people don’t hesitate to discuss a trans offender story on here. Usually in detail.

FamilyOfAliens

I meant to include a "thank you" in my post for you above.

[See the post above that links you to the school regulations for toilet and washing facilities.]

Page 17 the ehrc makes it clear that trans person should be treated as the gender (I agree that’s a bit problematic I don’t really like gender either) they present unless very good reason not to. I think most people would consider toilet use reasonable.

The EHRC had to revise some of their guidelines around this last year and one of the things they specifically took out was that you can't say to a trans person that they can't use the opposite sex toilets. Because, yes you can. It's covered by the EA exemptions. Yes it might go to court as a discrimination claim and we don't know what the outcome would be. But it is covered by exemptions meant to protect single SEX spaces.

There’s no indication of how representative that report is. Get the L out have made their anti trans views clear and have been disowned by most lesbians.

Oh well that's ok then the incidents mentioned represent a problem, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Field but how do you know they were a man and not a TW

That's what I'm trying to say. It's almost impossible to tell the difference in a lot of cases, and totally impossible to tell the difference in some cases

Isn't that kind of the point? If you can't exclude TW you also can't exclude men. Because you can't tell gender identity at a glance. But also many trans activist types are asking for unisex facilities, which don't even in theory exclude men, and are known to increase risk for women. Single gender facilities doesn't work, they'd need 76 for all the different possible identities.

Field but how do you know they were a man and not a TW? Genuine question. If TW like Danielle Muscato and JY use the female toilets (as they do), how can you tell by looking at someone?

I am archiving all your posts for when the inevitable happens in the school where I work

Here's the school regulations that state the requirement for sex-segregated toilets and washing facilities for children aged 8 years and over.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1943/made

I didn’t really think about lesbians too much but the cotton ceiling set me off cos it’s just the same old rapey shite.

I guess I very naively thought lesbians get to skip having to deal with the kind of gender stuff I was particularly concerned with (family dynamics, womens work that kinda thing) because of my own cultural background. I also stupidly thought things were going in the right direction for women.

But yes rapey shite targeted at any women will piss me right off. I was actually all for turning everything unisex (as I now understand it to be, don’t judge me, I was radiclised in time by mumsnet after I got over the fact that you weren’t just absolute total lady bigots). But cotton ceiling made me think “hmmm this doesn’t sound very good for women” it reminded me of incels and that pervert that runs pick up classes which involve gaslighting. The idea that you could moan about being excluded from someones pants was very enlightening for me. I always assumed the one place you could be as prejudiced as you bloody well like towards anyone is in your own pants.

So yeah I care about women regardless of who they are sleeping with. Plus ladybrain, always the ladybrain.