Radio 4 now - Surrogacy/Gay couples

Isn't there some badge of honour amongst certain gay men that they have never encountered a vagina, even when they are born? I think I read that somewhere.

To be fair, Crosstalk, she wanted a natural birth and he and his husband backed her up. The baby was late and it was the doctors who were talking about c-sections.

Growing a baby has "nothing to do with me."
Keeping myself safe so that the foetus remains safe has "nothing to do with me".
Feeding myself, depriving myself, to grow a healthy baby has "nothing to do with me".
Feeling my body change in ways that it will never recover from has "nothing to do with me".
Enduring tests and other medical procedures has "nothing to do with me".
Enduring the emotions that come with the hormonal changes have "nothing to do with me".
Enduring the pain of childbirth, the damage to my body "has nothing to do with me.
Going through all of that but having no baby at the end of it "has nothing to do with me".
Losing my agency, being told how I shall live for 9 months under threat of legal action, under threat of being dumped with hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills if I am disobedient, under threat of losing the money I need, is "nothing to do with me".
Because I am a surrogate, I am just a glorified babysitter, and really, it has "nothing to do with me".

And then she says, it wasn't her egg. You guys provided it. The guys provided the egg? I don't think so. Some other woman did that. The guys provided the sperm. She then says, "So it had nothing to do with me, I'm just the glorified babysitter for 9 months". He says, "I quite like tummy mummy".

Really listen to this and it's horrible.

And then it's back to the contract stuff. What, by contract, she couldn't consume or do. Her agency taken away by threat of legal action/non payment presumably.

Listening on, she talks about how other surrogates are dropped by the adopting families once the baby has arrived, and how they find that heartbreaking. Presenter chap quick to point out that he and husband didn't do this.

The woman talks about how her previous clients had pulled out after a doctor recommended that she was not a suitable candidate for surrogacy because she had had to have surgery (not specified). This had left her heartbroken and feeling like a failure. However, her "friend" at the agency told her, don't worry, we'll get you a different doctor and another client.

Not at all exploitative

thefirstmrsdewinter absolutely!

It is all part of the same narrative, which is all about making men feel better - or the exploiter, of either sex, who has the resources to exploit a female with a need, i.e., money. It suits the narrative to say that the woman suffers no harm, that she is doing it altruistically, that she even takes joy from it, but feels no personal pain, be it physical or psychological. To me, it goes hand in hand with the normalisation of sex work.

But if you were a casual listener, if you weren't listening to what she is not allowed to say, if you hadn't thought about the issue, then it would be, "Ahh, bless them all."

Next week's programme is the same bloke on "Being a Gay Dad".

It's now in Iplayer!

It's not on Iplayer. The journalist/father asks the surrogate whether the money was important? Was it fair compensation? Did we pay enough? How much di you think about all of that?

She replies:

"Going into it, the money was not the reason why I do (sic) it. Don't get me wrong, money is a good perk; and it's definitely not anywhere near what having a baby is worth, the toll that it puts on your body, you know, having a baby really is, it's priceless. People ask me all the time but contract wise, I'm not allowed to discuss any of that."

And then the presenter/dad moves swiftly on...

So, totally glossed over the "grubby stuff" - the commoditisation of women's reproduction capacity, the toll that might take, her own feelings. All discussion of this embargoed by "contract". But lots of discussion about how she's happy to be giving the gift of parenthood blah blah. So. not really a programme about the surrogate, is it?

How many desperate for money women will go through this and not be able to discuss the real price because of contract (which I presume means a non disclosure agreement). Law being used to silence women.

X post with FannyCann. Yes, they are softening up the public with these pieces.

Sorry, that should have been male gay couples who are fathers via surrogacy. Nowt wrong with male gay couples per se, very happy for them to be celebrated!

Not sure that it matters that, in the past, this country has had a negative view of surrogacy. The discourse has shifted. Gay couples, in particular, male gay couples, are feted in the media, something that would never have happened even 10 years ago. There is a huge amount of hand-wringing about the falling birthrate, especially in mainland Europe. Women's bodies being viewed as a legitimate economic and social commodity is at an all time high in modern times. Programmes like this are part of the slow drip feed. Nothing to see here.

She may well have disassociated from the baby but the baby hasn't from her.

Well quite, nobody ever seems to think of the effect on the babies. To be fair, I had zero feelings for by eldest for about a year. Despite a lovely pregnancy during which I felt like a lioness, and I felt like she was my little pal, I had a really long and traumatic birth experience which left me very depressed. However, I bloody well faked it until I felt it to ensure my baby felt the bond.