Radio 4 now - Surrogacy/Gay couples

@ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving

Let me know if you are going to Cardiff - I will be in a rush to get there but it would be great to walk in with a fellow stakeholder!

DM when you know?

it looks as though only “stakeholders” (i.e. surrogates and adopters) are being asked for their views?

No, not at all. It's just almost impossible to complete. I've tried twice. I have a partially completed and saved download.

thefirstmrsdewinter Lesbian couples are a large source of donor eggs for that exact reason. Many lesbians who seek assistance to become pregnant (in the form of donor sperm) are persuaded to undergo full IVF treatment instead of intra-uterine insemination, offered a discounted cycle if they donate eggs. They are particularly attractive as donors because they are likely to be young, with no fertility issues. IVF is sold to them as having a higher success rate.

Omg I never knew this. The lesbians I know used the trusty turkey baster method

I wonder how often the egg donor is 20, white, tall, blonde with an ivy league college education and the surrogate is poor and not white.

I find commercial surrogacy abhorrent, misogynistic and exploitative in the same way prostitution is.

Just to let you know I had a reply from the law commission on the surrogacy consultation and there will be another London event (one was held on 12th July, did anyone go or even hear about this?) in mid-Sept - keep an eye out.

umbel that's so sinister, I don't understand how it's allowed. The fertility industry is like the wild west.

thefirstmrsdewinter Lesbian couples are a large source of donor eggs for that exact reason. Many lesbians who seek assistance to become pregnant (in the form of donor sperm) are persuaded to undergo full IVF treatment instead of intra-uterine insemination, offered a discounted cycle if they donate eggs. They are particularly attractive as donors because they are likely to be young, with no fertility issues. IVF is sold to them as having a higher success rate.

I will ponder further what I think about women donating eggs which have been harvested as a “by-product” (horrible term) of their own fertility treatment. I believe they're often offered a discount on their own treatment to do so (but can't rememeber where I read that, Object probably). That seems coercive and not the absolute epitome of 'we're all consenting adults'.
cabbage yes sorry, that's just a trailer. I keep meaning to find out if the film could be bought and shown here. It seems to only have been shown in the US. www.eggsploitation.com/showings.htm

This is interesting:

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110127205858.htm

There was a 17 year old girl in India who died from hyper ovarian stimulation ( I think it's called) from the drugs she was taking to donate her eggs . I will try to find the article

thefirstmrsdewinter

Thanks for posting that. I don’t feel as though I got enough information from it, but I saw enough to realise that egg donation must be more risky for the donor medically than I was aware of.

A few years ago, I was pro-surrogacy (altruistic) but have changed my mind since learning and understanding more about it. It looks like I will be changing my view about egg donation once I find out more about that. I was horrified to see women claiming to have lost their own fertility and ability to have a family as a consequence of donating eggs.

I will ponder further what I think about women donating eggs which have been harvested as a “by-product” (horrible term) of their own fertility treatment. Or a woman being donated eggs from (e.g.) her sister, completely altruistically, with the sister being fully aware of all risks.

Also, I really abhor the idea that if you aren't a surrogate/ intended parent then you aren't a "stake holder" in this. Part of the consultation is about allowing payment for surrogacy and also lifting the advertising ban on it. I have a daughter. I don't want her growing up in a world where she sees actual adverts persuading her to rent her uterus. The idea that people in her future might eye her up as good breeding stock is, and that this will be championed as progressive and pro gay rights etc, is appalling, it makes me shake with anger to think of it. So I consider myself a bloody stakeholder.

Yes, this is awful. I feel as though we need to try and spread the word somehow, and get as many people as possible to fill in the consultation and attend the meetings. Should we see if WPUK are involved, or want to be?

BickerinBrattle 15:17

You are so right, I absolutely agree. It's terrifying.

I don't think I've ever read so many posts I agree with on one thread. Just yes to everything you've all said.

Also, I really abhor the idea that if you aren't a surrogate/ intended parent then you aren't a "stake holder" in this. Part of the consultation is about allowing payment for surrogacy and also lifting the advertising ban on it. I have a daughter. I don't want her growing up in a world where she sees actual adverts persuading her to rent her uterus. The idea that people in her future might eye her up as good breeding stock is, and that this will be championed as progressive and pro gay rights etc, is appalling, it makes me shake with anger to think of it. So I consider myself a bloody stakeholder.

Will definitely try and make the Cardiff event!

There might be a link between higher risk pregnancies to the mothers using donor eggs too as well as the risk to the donor

Tens of thousands protested in Israel recently for gay men's right to hire a surrogate. The misogyny is unbearable

I'm against get adoption let alone gay surrogacy! I think both are leaves from the same tree : women/mothers are irrelevant to babies/children and are expendable

There is little research about how egg donation may harm the donor. The whole surrogacy experiment is a can of worms which doesn't take the health or well being of women or children into account. www.objectnow.org/surrogacy

If you think egg donation is not a problem:

The problem lies with surrogacy, not with egg donation in itself.

Many healthy women who need to have their ovaries stimulated to produce the eggs they need because they have other problems conceiving will donate their eggs to couples with different problems. Is this wrong?

I don't think it's wrong if they are being donated to a woman who will carry them and raise the baby herself. That way (a) her body is not being exploited and (b) the baby is not removed from the mother (I still see her as the mother, even if not genetically her egg) at birth, which must be hugely traumatic for a newborn.

What is it about egg donors? Many healthy women who need to have their ovaries stimulated to produce the eggs they need because they have other problems conceiving will donate their eggs to couples with different problems. Is this wrong?

The buyers do not want a biological connection with the birth mother. It makes the contract "safer" in the words of Dustin Black: there will be less chance of the birth mother winning a custody battle if she decides to keep the baby

It's so disgusting really, because we are talking major medical procedures for both the surrogate mother and the egg donor, just to satisfy this legal nicety.

Is anybody thinking of going to the Birmimgham event?

Anyone know if the surrogate is named as the mother on the birth certificate? Or is the egg donor? This is so complicated.

(Interesting other thread on the 'Seahorse' Dad who wants to be named as the father on the birth certificate so this would be the first child not to have a mother, officially speaking?)

What is it with the use of egg donors?

Easy. The buyers do not want a biological connection with the birth mother. It makes the contract "safer" in the words of Dustin Black: there will be less chance of the birth mother winning a custody battle if she decides to keep the baby. Also they definitely do not want shared parenting. It completely shuts out the mother in every way.

And in the USA where egg donors are chosen from a catalogue they are likely to have excellent genetic attributes, college students finding a way to help pay their fees for instance.

The surrogate mother meh - a breeder class of woman. Just a walking incubator. Let's face it, intelligent successful career women will not be pursuing this line of work after all.