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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Being a student when you're Fed Up With This Shit

32 replies

IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 13:38

Have just finished my second year at what feels like the world's wokest university and am pissed off at the prospect of yet another year buttoning my lip about gender shite. I go to a women's college which, the year after I leave, is going mixed (though technically it was mixed anyway as they announced about a year ago that they'd accept anyone describing themselves as a woman), and although I didn't choose it because it was a women's college, I've enjoyed being in a female environment. It's pretty much the only female environment left, because every event, society, whatever, that in the past would've been for women, is now for "women and non-binary". Why?! Including people who call themselves non-binary isn't even necessary to placate the TWAW lot. They're not women, according to them. So why invite them?

It seems the new gender orthodoxy has even been taken up by non-students; when I've made the odd irritated comment, I've been argued against. I do know of one department member who bravely signed a letter protesting a student union publication decrying "TERFs" but I don't have anything to do with her. And I know of one other student who feels how I do but she's also quite right-wing and we agree on little else. So I feel very alone — I'm planning on joining the radical feminist society but TBH I'm not utterly sure I'd describe myself that way.

The then-upcoming decision on allowing self-declared women into college was almost the sole topic of conversation in the one and only college LGBT society meeting I attended. Eight or so gay and bi women sitting around talking about how to bully the college into accepting male students. Fucksake.

I don't even know what answer I want to this. Just… the loss of female spaces, the silent pressure to stay quiet about the nature of reality, the posters and stickers everywhere saying TWAW and informing you that a man in the ladies' loos absolutely belongs there and you're a prejudiced bigot if you even think otherwise… it's bloody annoying.

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IMissGluten · 18/07/2019 17:40

How do you know I'm in Cambridge? Grin I might be anywhere!

I made contact with someone earlier in the vacation to try and feel out whether the group seemed like it might be a good fit — I'm glad to hear it's more ideologically and demographically diverse than I was concerned it might be. I think I was added to the mailing list then, though I'm not absolutely sure.

Would be nice to be able to talk openly with other women about feminist stuff… presumably discussion isn't all focused on issues around extremist transgenderism at the moment?

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ukcamstudent · 18/07/2019 13:32

Cambridge Radical Feminist Network here -- JOIN US.

We are a loose network of women who basically meet up just to discuss stuff. We don't all agree with each other on everything and we don't expect it. Not all of our members describe themselves as 'radical feminists'. Some of us are closer to Marxism, others simply describe themselves as feminists. What unites us is a willingness to discuss things honestly, openly, and realistically.

We're currently on break for the summer so are not doing any official discussion groups at the moment, but some of us are still around Cambridge now (incl me) and have been to the pub a few times after term has ended just to hang out, so if you want to join us at any point, send us an email - [email protected] - and I'll add you to the contact list for the next time we meet up.

We have undergrads, postgrads, and a lot of women from the broader Cambridge community. Anybody here who is interested - like us on Facebook / follow us on Twitter (camradfems), and keep an eye out for announcements of new events. We've got big plans for new year. Wink

IMissGluten · 16/07/2019 23:13

I'm just a poor innocent millennial swimming in a sea of Gen. Zs…

It's actually been a pretty strange experience in some ways. I thought the biggest cultural differences to get to grips with when I went to university might be to do with social class or nationality. But in fact it's been the generational differences in what matters most to people politically which have stood out — for the current lot of university students the biggest issues seem to be the environment, intersectionality, decolonisation, and of course transgenderism. (I have no major beef with the first three but have never engaged with related movements to any significant extent.) I question myself constantly as to whether my GC views mean I'm out of touch — just old and prejudiced — and that really messes with my concept of myself as a progressive liberal leftie 😂

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IMissGluten · 16/07/2019 22:07

Fair enough 😄

To be fair I'm sure the Young Conservatives and the baby Marxists used to be faaaaar worse than they are now…

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RiotAndAlarum · 16/07/2019 21:10

Did half the women on this board attend the same university or something

Oh, no, darling, you (along with @Spinster of Arts) are the ones) validating us! None of this bullshit to rail against when I were a privileged Gen X undergraduate.

nonsenceagain · 15/07/2019 23:25

If you’re where I think you are, I’d contact the radical feminist society. You’ll probably meet some kindred spirits but if not, you won’t have to go back. If I didn’t have my GC friends, I’d go mad.

IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 19:17

Did half the women on this board attend the same university or something Grin

Being at a mature college does help a bit with feeling isolated, but they're mostly still pretty young... they seem to be able to go out, get wankered, wake up at 5 to go to training, attend some lectures, bang out an essay, attend a supervision in the afternoon, have a quick nap, then do it all over again the next day, all while I'm still nursing the grandmother of all hangovers because my stupid 30-odd-year-old liver has decided it's Done With This Shit Thank You Very Much.

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RiotAndAlarum · 15/07/2019 18:53

You'll still be a member of the university and of college once you graduate. Loads of people hang around.... Wink.

I wasn't a mature student, but doing my M.A. (at another university) after a year or so's break, I really felt that the undergrads were really young. If you're a mature student, no wonder you're feeling isolated. Sad Bon courage, dear. You are a thinking woman, and you have a place at the College of Mumsnet.

IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 18:38

Well, if you're who I think you are, Spinster, and I'm who you think I am, then I'm glad my leftieness isn't that offputting Grin I'm a cultural liberal, and waver around between social democrat, democratic socialist, social liberal and liberal socialist... and also object to being told I must believe in gendered innerness and defer to demands that I make concessions for people according to what they claim theirs is.

I tend to avoid political discussions in real life generally, but particularly with people I might have significantly different views to, simply because face-to-face I'm often pretty incoherent in political discussions and get frustrated with myself that I can't express what I mean (I have ASD, which might be a factor...). So I stick to other topics, and would avoid extensive discussion of GC views with someone who I know has other political views very different to mine, because that discussion is likely to touch on or lead to other aspects of politics, and I don't want to spend all day being annoyed with myself! I do my political discussion and debate online, mostly, though I'll discuss some political stuff in person if it's not likely to lead to major areas of significant disagreement where there's little chance of either side persuading the other. I do like to read and hear opposing viewpoints, but it's much easier in text, and with someone you know you won't be sitting opposite at dinnertime Grin

Good luck at UniversityNoPlatformLondon :)

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SpinsterOfArts · 15/07/2019 17:00

I know she's an MNer Grin I'm quite an extreme leftie liberal, which is probably pretty off-putting

Not at all. Grin I'm 95% sure we do know each other. I'm an economically centre-right, socially libertarian type. I disagree with most lefties on lots of things, but the only ones who annoy me are the ones who think that everyone who disagrees with them politically must be evil, and the ones who think that disagreement is 'literal violence'. Which, if you are who I think you are, is definitely not you! One of the nice things about meeting people at university is the diversity of political views.

Unfortunately I'll be leaving the university next week - and moving for my PhD to a London university also known for wokeness and no-platforming. There's no escaping it at the better-known institutions, I think.

IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 16:53

Fair point just.

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justasking111 · 15/07/2019 15:13

You may need a reference from the uni. so keep your head down and get your degree imo.

IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 15:05

Yotam, I probably am at the university you think I'm at, but I thought that since the only relevant aspect is that it's a collegiate uni, and that that was already clear from what I posted, I probably didn't need to specify.

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IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 14:27

Yotam, that sounds like a great mix 😀

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IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 14:25

Ounce please try telling that to my Director of Studies… Grin

(Actually, try telling anything to my Director of Studies…)

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Yotam · 15/07/2019 14:24

If you are the university I think you must be at, then join the radical feminist group. They have exciting things planned for next year and area mixture of under and postgrads plus have also include non student women in their group meetings. You will find like minded people.

IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 14:23

I wonder if you are that particular individual, Spinster… I know she's an MNer Grin I'm quite an extreme leftie liberal, which is probably pretty off-putting GrinGrin

And yes, classist, and also ableist — I'm a mature student thanks to longterm illness that began in my teens and delayed my education. And sexist — on the Access course I took before university, a good chunk of the women were returners to education who'd had children young, which wouldn't prevent a male in that situation from doing his A levels and buggering off to uni.

Ginger, great that people are speaking out on your course! I think you're right; a professional course would maybe have an older, perhaps more experienced bunch on it.

Sounds like a great little group northern — I'm going to try the radfems for now, I think, partly because I'm going to be so busy with my uni work this next year (argh, finals)!

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Ounce · 15/07/2019 14:15

I'd consider writing a book but my uni workload for the next year is insane 😂

Yeah never mind that. This is more important. Grin

northernresister · 15/07/2019 14:13

@IMissGluten

Well yes thats what my friend did. Particularly if you are not sure how many students well get involved at first. Primarilly for students but a couple of residents come along now. It's only in early days so far. But it's really up to you what you want to do. If it's not a campus Uni then thats an ideal situation.

Good luck!

IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 14:11

2cats, it sounds like she's at least thinking critically about this stuff, which is good.

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Gingerkittykat · 15/07/2019 14:10

I'm lucky in that I am a mature student doing a part time professional course in a mixed institution so all students are older so less of the gender bullshit. One (male) student is very openly gender critical when we chat outwith class, and another (female) made openly disparaging remarks about gender one day in class. I was worried about someone making a complaint about her, but luckily it never happened.

The one piece of wokeness was being told to ask clients their gender identity and preferred pronouns, something I have no intention of doing.

I did briefly consider joining the student association, but due to practical reasons it would not be viable.

I do know they have self ID of sex/gender on ID cards, one student in my daughter's class got hysterical when they turned up for an exam, showed male ID and the invigilator questioned whether boys name was actually a boy as they were wearing a skirt and had pink hair. A tutor also acted bemused when another "male" student needed to use the toilet frequently to deal with problem periods.

Unfortunately you can't question in this environment, I know the disciplinary process is triggered by any complaint so it is best to just internally roll your eyes and get on with it.

I do understand you isolation, it does seem the rad fem society might be the only place you can find solidarity. It is also likely they would be the ones to challenge allowing men in.

SpinsterOfArts · 15/07/2019 14:09

A little of both, I think. My social circle is mainly postgrads, but I also think women who are that bit older are more likely to appreciate women-only spaces, and less likely to accept the more absurd parts of genderist dogma in order to be 'nice'.

I was irritated by the 'job done' sentiment, too. That and the assertion that there's no need for a mature-age college because every 18-year-old now has the opportunity to go to university, which just seemed cluelessly classist to me.

2cats2many · 15/07/2019 14:08

I hope this shite has passed over by the time my daughter gets to uni. She's 12 now and all my fingers are crossed.

We went for a run together yesterday and we talked about what's gender and what's sex. In a nutshell, stereotypes vs biological reality. I'm priming her now for the idiocy she's going to have to listen to.

IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 14:04

northern, you mean, like, for both local residents and students? It's not a campus university, and a lot of student groups meet in pubs etc. anyway.

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IMissGluten · 15/07/2019 14:02

By "mature student", BTW, I mean, like, really mature… even among mature students, most are in their early twenties, and I'm… not Grin

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