Porn as a violent hate crime

@Bezalelle why?

Oh go away, @soapona.

Well, whodid a thortidit?

Turns out that Mindgeek, the guys who flogged the Age-ID software to the govt. also run Pornhub and most of the world's global porn sites.

Conflict of interest?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48990991

How much do they get paid for the job of sticking their tongues up a stranger's anus? Is anyone stupid enough to really believe that the recipient having had an enema to clear out visible faeces is going to protect them ingesting worm eggs, protozoa, bacteria and virus? We don't have canine digestive systems, humans aren't designed to lick each others bums!

Oh my. Glad you took one for the team and checked that one out for us.

No, we are not 🐕!

@stealthsquirrelnutkin Brilliant post. I think you're missing the fact that it can feel quite sexy to be dominated in the bedroom. They say woman like it as they get sick of doing everything and running round, it can be nice to submit. I appreciate though humiliation is entirely different and this is eye opening.

So called lesbian porn is almost invariably produced for male viewers, and is cringe inducing to actual lesbians.

I watched some gay porn back in the 1990s because everyone involved always seemed to be enjoying themselves. Checked gay porn on porn hub a few years ago and was horrified by how much was now "gay for pay" with straight (or gay men pretending to be straight) participants being hurt and humiliated.

Also, what is with all the spitting, and choking?

When did it become sexy to have someone grotch onto your genitals? Are we supposed to believe that they just got so carried away that they couldn't lean over and reach for the lube?

How much do they get paid for the job of sticking their tongues up a stranger's anus? Is anyone stupid enough to really believe that the recipient having had an enema to clear out visible faeces is going to protect them ingesting worm eggs, protozoa, bacteria and virus? We don't have canine digestive systems, humans aren't designed to lick each others bums!

Pornographer joking about the fact that women in porn often sustain injuries and end up in urgent care.

https://twitter.com/lailamickelwait/status/1150275307925991424?s=12

Well not entirely actually, I don’t have the data but I’m given to understand the injuries women sustain at the hands of men (or Gay men at the hands of their partners) are more severe, and more likely to be life threatening.

@Dervel Being a lesbian is therefore more dangerous than being heterosexual? That's interesting!

@soapona a 2010 CDC study into IPV found that 26% of gay men suffered IPV compared to 29% heterosexual men. Also 44% of lesbian women experienced IPV relative to 35% of heterosexual women. I think bisexual women came off the worst as their rates were in the 60s.

50 Shades references the sub/Dom scene. I'm not very familiar with it but I do know it's very much based on clear and explicit boundaries, so no, not the same.

In theory.

I think a woman who is a consumer of porn featuring violence on other women is totally complicit in the food chain, yes. It's absolutely her right to do so but she is creating demand for this material and has a hand in how it results in the treatment of women and girls.

50 Shades references the sub/Dom scene. I'm not very familiar with it but I do know it's very much based on clear and explicit boundaries, so no, not the same.

I think the point about ethical porn is true, unfortunately.

@Micaela64 Good point you know when they gives statistics on men in domestic violence they often fail to mention its at the hands of a gay partner and give more detailed statistics!

And Dworkin explaining that if it were any other group of people apart from women, who were being hurt, given diseases, and abused, then there would be a national outcry

Men in gay porn??

@sakura184 Some good points. I think I might have done porn if it was "estate agent cheesy" if I was young and it paid extremely well. I don't think I'd get paid enough for that so you're right. There are many jobs I wouldn't do as I'm in the privileged position of not having to. The type of person who is most likely to sign up to this is usually vulnerable in one way or another.

Lesbian like watching lesbian porn so is that ok?

@sakura184 what you talking about is extreme hardcore stuff with gangbang? Not babysitter or estate agent porn, so is that stuff ok?

This has got me thinking. I don't mind porn may be it is wrong. You know it can be nice fantasy of escapism for woman to imagine being dominated. Surely porn is just a little mind treat? Where does 50 shades come into this? Women seemed to enjoy that.

Ultimately porn is market driven. Violent porn exists because that's what men want to watch. If men wanted to watch ethical porn instead, it'd exist instead. The only way to convince men who like to watch violent porn to switch from unethical porn to ethical porn would be to create ethical violent porn. The only way of doing this would be to:
a) have actors who "consented" to having violent sexual acts committed against them, or
b) have the entire thing staged like a movie.

In the case of (b) movies with sexual violence already exist and are much easier to get hold of/ more acceptable to watch than violent porn, so it suggests that people watching this stuff don't actually just want to see it, they also want it to actually be happening. Knowing it's real is part of the kick.

So option a) then. Can people really consent to having sexual violence committed against them? I'd say not. But the production of this kind of "porn and it's promotion as "ethical" is predicated on the idea that people can and do freely and happily consent to sexual violence. Disseminating that belief is disastrous in it's own right.

Finally the argument that if the actors consent then no one is harmed is fallacious. A man who is validated in his belief that acts of sexual violence can be consensual and that the desire to watch sexual violence is not inherently immoral, is a dangerous man. Our beliefs don't live in a vacuum and the production - the entire concept even - of ethical porn, reinforces misogyny and male sexual entitlement and puts all women in danger, not just the porn actors/ victims.

sakura, men people like to believe that women enter 'sex work' willingly and enjoy doing it to excuse their own enjoyment/ tolerance of it to varying degrees.

I have watched 'female friendly' porn in the past, but will not watch it now. Some may be 'legit' but you have absolutely no way of knowing for sure so I'm not going to provide further demand for it.

There was an interesting BBC debate recently on so called "ethical" porn with Sarah Ditum. Suffice to say I'm not convinced by the arguments in favour.

There are 'female friendly' porn makers where the focus is on the woman receiving pleasure. But they are few and far between and you dont know until you watch how 'friendly' it is.