Birthing mother abused for refusing male nurse

Women who had a fab, faultless hospital birth? Again, this thread isn't really for you

Oh bore off with this. You have been chopping and changing what this thread is about every time you get challenged on your many unsubstantiated and biased posts.

You weren't pleased you didn't get universal support for the woman in the opening post so you decided it was about something else.

You weren't pleased you were challenged on the nonsense you were posting about male gynaecologists so you decided it was about something else.

You weren't pleased you were challenged on your adoration of Ina May Gaskin so you've changed it again.

This thread is, specifically, for women who want to avoid an unnecessarily overly medicalized birth, and who are frightened of hospitals and who don't want men (or horrible midwives) treating them. It is about birth trauma stemming from being treated like a piece of meat by hospital staff

Is it ? When was that decided and by whom?

Cos I'm really struggling to see it as a anything but a soapbox about how wonderful home birth is and how uneducated women are who don't have them, don't want them or can't have them

Because you are struggling...does it really mean that other women cannot talk about their experiences of positive and natural home birth; and voice views, observations & opinions on other quite different birth experiences, though?

Thankyou RedToothBrush - I always worry when posting about electives, because I know that for some women they are very healing, and my experience was the very opposite! I would never want to shut down conversation over choosing what birth someone aims for, choice and a voice in any birth is so important. I am touched that you remember my posts.

I was going to huff off. But I am a grown up and this thread has some interesting and emotional stuff in between the blind dogma and sticking of fingers in ears and going la la la.

That's why it's so important to gain a rapport with a midwife during pregnancy and if you don't like her or there's a personality class you should get a different one

I didn't want a midwife I would build a rapport with. I can't recall if I saw the same midwife at each of my ante - natal appointments. It didn't matter. I wanted a hospital birth with trained professionals doing their job.

I note that you have no comments on the unnecessary deaths caused by midwives failing to seek medical intervention in time?

amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/12/midwives-to-stop-using-term-normal-birth

You seem to only hear, or be arsed to listen to, the experiences you want to hear, and that fit in with your very restricted view of childbirth and obstetric care.

Isn't that the truth. And the fangirling, prioritising something she read over people's actual experiences here... Jeez Louise. I loathe dogma in all its forms.

I feel bloody stupid for contributing personal and painful memories that can be dismissed as so much blah.

Hazey don't. It's always about the onlookers.

I think your contributions over the years about how an ELCS isnt always the right thing and isnt an 'easy solution' have been incredibly value.

One of my hospital births was not fine because I was denied appropriate and desired medicalisation. It was a very traumatic experience.

Ah, do you know what. Crack on. This is not the way to hold an adult discussion. I feel bloody stupid for contributing personal and painful memories that can be dismissed as so much blah.

You seem to only hear, or be arsed to listen to, the experiences you want to hear, and that fit in with your very restricted view of childbirth and obstetric care.

My trauma with DS1 was related to the midwife not listening to me. I was being moved from mw-led to consultant-led during labour as my BP skyrocketed. On the trolley, in the corridor, I began to push. Not chose to, my body did it involuntarily. She told me to stop being silly, I was hours away from delivery. Insisted I could not be ready to deliver, in the corridor: no checks. So I forced my body to suppress it.
Got to the delivery room to find I actually was ready to deliver, but not only that - that DS1 was distressed (I was later told this was very likely due to me suppressing my pushing). Hit the big red button, room filled with medics, episiotomy and ventouse, and luckily DS1 was born perfectly fine.

Luckily, with fast labour already on my notes (four hours from first contraction to delivery for DS1), I was taken a lot more seriously when DS2s labour began (this was also a big factor in me choosing a home birth for him - was paranoid I'd give birth on the side of the road!). Just goes to show that all midwives (and doctors) need to listen to their patients, not provide care-by-numbers.

My middle sister - with my fast-labours already in the past by then - was taken much more seriously as she could point to 'family history of fast labour'. Hers were the same, 4hrs and hrs. Youngest sister of course, had the worlds slowest labours. Just to be awkward

sakura184 Oh give over. You have stated multiple times now that you want no men in the profession at all and how any man in the profession is taking a job from a woman who’d don’t go and actually train, because less trained staff is exactly what we need..

Oh FFS. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't talk about and reference Ina May.

Just be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of what she says.

She clearly has had a positive effect for a lot of women.

The problem is when it becomes evangelical and not aware of its own bias and flaws. Especially if it has unintended consequences which are negative. (and the evangelism element is harmful because it sets up poor narratives and can produce unrealistic expectations)

One of the things that was stressed to me was 'how are you going to cope if it doesn't go to plan' and how you need to consider this. And to mentally prepare for that.

The problem, and possibly part of the reason for its success, is that Ina May philosophy seems to rely heavily on the psychological trick of single mindedness which is also used today in sports psychology.

When it works fine, but the downside to that is how it leaves women if 'it doesn't work for them'. It places the sense of failure on them personally or demonises the very people who are there to help when there are problems.

At its heart is this idea of 'the cascade of interventions' as a theory. It is flawed as it suggests that it's a failure of care givers making decisions - in many cases this might well be true due to poor practice, lack of skills and defensive medicine. However its also the pathway if there is a very genuine problem which care givers need to adopt to save the life of you and your baby. So if you believe in the cascade of interventions unquestioningly it can be harmful in terms of trust with health care professionals.