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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sexual harassment on train, had enough of this

29 replies

derailtrainpervs · 10/07/2019 23:50

Namechanging because my Mum is involved in this.

Mum and I are on a train sitting opposite each other in window seats, having taken two aisle seats earlier and then moved over to the window when the people in the window seats left. There is no table in the seat bay. The train gets busier and an older couple sit next to us in the aisle seats. Mum and I both noticed that the woman was carrying all the shopping, and they don't talk to each other beyond "here's some seats". We come to leave the train, the man suddenly grins widely. He raises his hand as Mum is standing up and hovers it near her bottom but doesn't touch (because I am watching perhaps?). I stand up, and as I leave the seat bay, I feel his hand rest on my backside behind my hip for a few seconds.

No physical harm done but I feel violated, about half-an-hour later I started feeling sick and I'm going to have to shower before I can sleep tonight. This has brought back memories of prior, much more serious sexual assaults and reminded me that, despite 100 years of suffrage and civil rights gains, there are still men out there who think that women exist for men's gratification and convenience and that a woman without a man at her side is abandoned property for any man to claim.

Let's analyse this event.

  1. He knew what he was going to do, he planned it as soon as he realised we were leaving the train, that's why he grinned like he'd been given a present. People don't grin like that normally when someone they've never even spoken to leaves a train.
  2. I was helpless to stop him and he knew it: a) When I stand up, I can't ask him to lower his hand that is poised to touch me, it's his hand so I have no right to tell him to lower it and he hasn't touched me YET. b) I can't tell him not to touch me before I pass him, because that's accusing him of something he has not YET done, and we know how that will end. c) I can't refuse to pass him, there's no other way out of my seat and I'll miss my stop.
  3. I cannot confront him at the time or do the "grab his hand, shout 'who's hand is this that I found on my arse?'" thing, and he knows it: a) If I confront him, I'll miss my station, my Mum is already on her way through the train to the doors and I'll have to call her back, she might not hear me and then she will leave the train without me and we will be separated. b) He touched me for a short enough time that i) I cannot react fast enough to grab his hand/stomp hard on his foot/etc and ii) he could claim it was accidental. c) If I confront him in front of his wife, it will humiliate her in public and I am unwilling to do that out of consideration for her and her feelings. d) If he is abusing/controlling his wife, she will take the brunt of his anger at home if I confront him (remember, he's not talked to her, she told him where seats are and they have been silent since, this is not normal for a couple, and she is carrying all the (food, probably for both of them) shopping when he has enough use of his hands to touch women's arses, this is not the action of a decent man, this is the action of a man who considers his wife to be his servant).
  4. I cannot make a formal complaint to the train operator or police and he knows it: a) His wife didn't see it because I am not see-through, my body was between her and his hand, and she would probably would not support me even if she had, either through "not my Nigel" or through being under coercive control (remember she is carrying all the shopping). b) My Mum didn't see it because she is heading towards the train door with her back to me. c) He would probably claim that he was "being helpful" and "guiding me out" (In which case, why not do the same for my Mum? And do adult women actually need a stranger's hand on the arse to guide them out of a seat bay?).

Mum and I talked this incident over and basically the only thing we can think of that might have prevented it was if we had sat side-by-side so that the couple would have been opposite, and even then he would have still been able to reach one or both of us, especially if he had taken the aisle seat. And frankly, we shouldn't have to change where we sit on a train to stop skeevy men from touching our backsides.

Woman don't react in the moment because we frequently cannot. This is why I'm posting this: people need to understand that women can't always react to or avert sexual harassment.

OP posts:
Chocmallows · 11/07/2019 00:09

I think you should report and see if he's on any recordings in the area. He may be repeatedly doing this (and more) and more sightings may help identify him.

Reporting may help you get the feeling of empowerment back.

TalkingAboutPride · 11/07/2019 00:04

I'm sorry this happened to you. You were (obviously) in no way at fault.

I want to gently challenge you in a couple of points though. You are not powerless.

You can (and should) report it to the transport police. I hear they take it very seriously. No they might not catch him but even just reporting it for the statistics can help.

You absolutely can react in the moment. You are not responsible for his wife's embarrassment - and what if your reaction helped to empower her to see what an arse he is and get herself some help to get out?

Imagine if you got your mum to pull the emergency lever and you shouted loudly letting everybody nearby know that he's just sexually assaulted you. Imagine the ticket conductor coming to find out what's going on, and the police potentially too. It would sure as hell make him think twice about doing it again.

I had similar happen to me in a nightclub - my instinctive reaction was to grab the fingers, turn around and twist. He was lucky he didn't get them dislocated. Imagine if you did that.

You are most definitely not blame for not doing any of these things. But I want you to know that you're not powerless. For too long men have fed women that lie.
Xxx

GodDammitAmy · 11/07/2019 00:04

I'm sorry too Derail. Not the same as not on a train but an old man was walking towards me with a real steely expression on his face in a shopping mall once. I was right near the shops and had no where to go when he staggered and "fell" into me, conveniently breaking his fall as his hands grabbed my breasts. He knew what he was going to do, I felt so uneasy at the way he was staring at me and knew something was going to happen. What could I have done? Shouted at an old man? He'd have got everyone's sympathy and I would have been the one everyone turned on. It still makes me feel sick to think about years later.

42isthemeaning · 10/07/2019 23:55

I'm sorry this happened to you. A man put his hand on my backside up my dress and with his other hand was masturbating. It was a sardine packed commuter train and I didn't realise initially. It was 25 years ago and I've never forgotten the feeling of violation and disgust. I pulled his hand off and shouted at him. He just grinned. Sad

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