Y chromosome

She wrote how interesting it was that men had a vested interest in making sure this didn't become public knowledge.

All a load of bobbins. Smashing phrase.

Superiority to someone with pretty much...

Sorry Sakura this is just plain bobbins

And as I’ve said, it reminds me uncomfortably of scientific racism. I’m out

As one of my Xs in each cell is largely inactive anyway, I'm not sure I feel any superiority with pretty much the same X dosage. But maybe that's just the female socialisation talking...

Sakura so I'm clear, are you saying that a bit like the 'selfish gene', we actually need to beware the 'inadequate chromosome' and realise that the patriarchy is based on men having a sex-based inferiority complex due to some sort of internal sense of Y chromosome shame/ X chromosome envy?

It's almost like all men's talk, codified into laws and religions and literature and medicine , about their innate superiority over women
, was all along a huge deflection

But when did men stop evolving?

Nope it was just a fascinating discovery for women, who had been told for millennia that they were definitely inferior to men. To find that , biologically, we are definitely not inferior after all, far from it, was a revelation.

I’m reading Angela Saini’s Superior and I must say this conversation does feel like it has echoes of scientific racism

.

I know the points been made, but...

"the whole point of having Y people is so that females can evolve. Ys, however, don't evolve themselves"

"The whole point of males is so that females evolve from generation to generation. Males themselves, however, not only do not evolve, but actually do the opposite and "become more streamlined" with each generation"

...these posts would suggest you haven't taken that in.

I'm leaving "evolve from generation to generation" to one side...

This is the most bizarre thread ever. It seems to be a pretty blatant attempt to construct a biological justification to say that women are genetically superior to men. Nasty stuff.

They aren't just XY they are 44 + XY. Not random derail, salient point. Since they will experience variation in the 44 as well as the sex chromosomes. You don't seem to grasp this.

You talk as if all Y chromosomes are simultaneously mutating in the same way and one day will all accumulate so many mutations that all men will suddenly disappear in a Thanos click.

I think they're on their way out, yes, but I'm sure it's a process that takes probably millions of years , I have no idea. I doubt the planet has got much longer so we'll all be dead before that happens anyway

No I know men are XY, I don't think they're just a Y. Random derail again

But any mutation in an individual Y chromosome which is deleterious to the extent that it is incompatible with life will lead to an unsuccessful pregnancy, and any that is deleterious to the extent that it is incompatible with reproduction will not be passed on. Leaving all the other non-mutated Y chromosomes to continue human reproduction.

You talk as if all Y chromosomes are simultaneously mutating in the same way and one day will all accumulate so many mutations that all men will suddenly disappear in a Thanos click.

So are you suggesting sakura184 that at some point human males have stopped evolving?

Yes

The number for genes does not indicate biological relevance. It's what the genes code for and how they are expressed that matters.

All DNA can repair and we have enzymes that specifically do just that.

I will echo what others have said, you seem to be mistakenly assuming that the Y contains all the genetic material in a man. Which is doesn't.

When it does contain is the SRY region which drives the production of the Male phenotype. Presence of a Y equates to the production of a Male phenotype (so long as there is no other DSD) butbit doesn't hold all the genetic variation of males.

Really, you should read some basic biology.

Very much from a lay persons point of view, I'm completely certain that at some point human males were able to evolve, due to the fact that I'm not married to a primate

I'd also suggest that the fact that the variation in appearance among humans being as wide among males as females, shows that too

So are you suggesting sakura184 that at some point human males have stopped evolving?

the Y chromosome actually constitutes a very small fraction of the genetic material in any male human (or dude if you prefer).

Yes that's been covered below. The Y doesn't have many genes at all

God no I totally agree with you that mutations can be beneficial in nature.

But that's not what she's talking about here.

You are repeatedly conflating the Y chromosome with "male", but the Y chromosome actually constitutes a very small fraction of the genetic material in any male human (or dude if you prefer).

She makes it clear that when she talks about mutations she's talking about the inability of the Y to repair itself.

Nobody is talking about beneficial mutations, which is a random derail