Y chromosome

Women aren't socialised out of violence, we're generally not violent

much as I'd like to believe it, this is pure speculation by the way.

this too:

We're also not socialised out of being perverts, the kind that being a man produces. We don't need to be because we're just not like that

let's see if I can say this in a way that makes any kind of sense!

twin studies are often used to try to determine the effects of nature vs nurture

apparently if your twin is divorced, you yourself are more likely to be divorced

Do we believe that divorce is heritable via our genetics? If you carry the 'divorce gene' that's it chum, no happy marriage for you?

No, we understand that there will be no single cause of a divorce, the situation will be incredibly complicated

Much like intelligence, and indeed, a propensity to violence in my opinion

people's genetic code isn't an irrefutable map that leaves them and us helpless to prevent future reprehensible behaviour

When the embryo is developing into a foetus, it develops various primitive structures that will develop into the organs of the body. For a time it has primitive versions of both a womb, fallopian tubes and upper vagina and the vas deferens, seminal vesicle and prostate.

It also develops primitive gonads. If the SRY gene is present, those primitive gonads rapidly become testes. If it isn't, they become ovaries. At that point, eight weeks into foetal development, the Y chromosome has done its job and, save for being around to be copied into sperm, is now redundant.

The testes start producing testosterone, which leads to the abandonment and dismantling of the primitive female structures, the maturation of the male structures, the development of the primitive genitals as male rather than female, and, possibly, the masculinisation of the brain. Without high testosterone the primitive male structures will be abandoned, the female structures will be developed and the genitals will develop as female.

It is testosterone that masculinises, as is shown in various disorders/differences in sexual development such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia, and by trans men who take it to masculinise. While the default in some senses is female, all of us have the capability to masculinise on exposure to high levels of testosterone.

Fun Fact 1: Testosterone and oestrogen are chemically almost the same.

Fun Fact 2: The body converts testosterone into oestrogen

Fun Fact 3: Women have more testosterone than oestrogen. What makes the difference is that men have a lot more testosterone and a lot less oestrogen.

You haven’t backed up the argument that men are inherently violent.

Did I not? Oh well, you agree with me anyway -

All humans are violent, men and women

Guess you think it's in the genes too, you're just trying to make the MRA claim that "women do it to". We don't actually. Women aren't socialised out of violence, we're generally not violent, except in rare cases. We're also not socialised out of being perverts, the kind that being a man produces. We don't need to be because we're just not like that.

You obviously know zero about being a little girl.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709846/

Always that just isnt true. Testerone makes people aggressive. That is why women become more ambitios in there 50's as testosterone levels rise post menopause. We neuter other male animals to make them less violent and more biddible. Production of testes and therefore testosterone is absolutely coded on the Y. Are you a scientist ? how can you refute that ?

" Most of the Y is made of repetitive “junk DNA”

That is true for the entire human genome though, about 98% of the entire human genome is non-coding DNA. Why single out the Y chromosome?

You haven’t backed up the argument that men are inherently violent. You’ve simply restated it again and again. If it’s innate the feminist board might as well pack up and go home.

How do non-violent males create a violent society? I didn’t say they aren’t violent. All humans are violent, men and women, as are all primates; men are just way better at violence than women because men are stronger and faster, and because women will have it socialised out of them from an early age. Young girls raised as soldiers will be just as violent as boys.

Exactly what do you think is missing from the ‘degraded’ Y chromosome that isn’t compensated for by the X that men carry in each cell too? The mutations that lead to conditions like colour blindness occur on the X, not the Y. Mutations on the Y largely affect fertility and by their nature select themselves out.

How is it that a feeble relic is able to overwrite the developmental path laid out by the vastly larger X chromosome? Hell, it even overwrites two or three X chromosomes in Klinefelter’s and can even send a girl down the male phenotype route if the SRY gene is transposed into the X. It’s a magic bullet where sexual development is concerned. It makes the bullet that took out JFK look like a bash on the head with a sock full of loose change.

What do you think is the cause of men's violence Roses?

Rhetorically. How could non-violent males create a violent society? It's impossible. Like I said, patriarchal society is an expression of men's selves. Once you remove socialisation from the mix all that is left is that men are innately violent. They like it that way, if they didn't they'd change it overnight given that they've been holding all the power for millennia.

Where?

Yes I have, contrarian.

Nah I've already backed it up
No you haven't

Nah, I've already backed it up. Socialisation just doesn't cut it, so all that's left is that violence is innate in men. You keep trying to set yourself up as some kind of expert and arbiter when misogyny keeps seeping into your posts.

And I didn't say the Y chromosome was going extinct, I said it was degraded. Jenny Graves made the former argument, but as a leading geneticist I'm sure it's worth paying attention to her opinion. I've already said it was debatable.

Okay, you’ve clarified what you are stating. Now back that up.

Explain how the Y chromosome is heading towards extinction; then point me to the locus of the gene that makes men evil.

Sakura was asking why, and she speculated it was down to the degraded Y chromosome, hence the two arguments became linked. She might be right. We don't know. You certainly don't.

The Y chromosome has degraded. Fact.,

The Y chromosome will continue to degrade. Debatable.

Men are horrifically violent. Fact. War, genocide, rape, murder, gynocide, armies, nuclear bombs, environmental destruction. All facts. All created and enacted by men.

You can call it "original sin" because mocking is clearly all you have left but men do those things and on a feminist board we need to be asking why.

What are you citing her for? Are you making two separate, equally wrong arguments, that (a) the Y chromosome is melting away like the Wicked Witch of the West (Grave’s claim) and that (b) Original Sin lurks on the Y chromosome?

Please point out where in Graves' research she's blinded by prejudice.

I've argued two things

1. the Y chromosome is degraded (supported by Jenny Graves' research)

2. men are innately violent (supported by their observable behaviour)

I didn't say those two things were linked, in fact I said the opposite.

I'm not citing her in support of that. You appear to be struggling with reading comprehension. I was citing her in support of the argument that the Y chromosome is degraded. It is and she did the research on it. I noted her qualifications because I'll take her word that it's degraded over your opinion any day of the week.

It doesn't take a scientist to know that men are grossly violent. We just need to look at the world around us and what they've done throughout history. I already asked someone if they really thought male "entitlement" was what led to genocide. I haven't had an answer, but it's probably one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen on here.

Well, I checked, and this was you wasn’t it?

Erythronium

Here's an article by Jenny Graves who wrote the first paper on the degradation of the Y chromosome. Here's what she has to say about it:

"The X bears about 1,600 genes with varied functions. But the Y has hardly any genes; maybe 50, and only 27 of these are in the male-specific part of the Y. Many are present in multiple copies, most of them inactive, lying in giant loops of DNA. Most of the Y is made of repetitive “junk DNA”. Thus the human Y shows all the signs of a degraded chromosome near the end of its life."

No I haven't. You're confusing my posts with Sakura's.

So it wasn’t you who brought Jenny Graves into the conversation?

James Watson cracked the structure of DNA. He’s one of the most important biologists of the 20th Century. He’s also a racist. A professional qualification doesn’t mean you aren’t blinded by prejudice.

I really don’t give a toss about her qualifications, I want to hear your arguments. I really don’t know what the hell you are citing her in support of your claim that Male Malevolence is expressed in the Y chromosome. Were they particularly wicked wallabies and cruel koalas that she studied? Are Tasmanian devils as demonic as their name would suggest?