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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Your pronouns"

65 replies

bingoitsadingo · 08/07/2019 14:06

I've seen on a number of threads discussing being asked for your pronouns, people referencing research/studies that shows that when women are reminded of their gender or sex, their performance drops, or that when other people are reminded/told that X is a woman, they treat them differently, etc. Could anyone direct me to any of these please? I've been searching but struggled to find much.

I've noticed professionally that pronouns are creeping more and more into peoples email signatures, twitter bios, etc, so would really appreciate some resources to back up why I think this is a terrible idea for women generally, as I can't imagine it will be long before I'm asked to do the same

OP posts:
TemporaryPermanent · 09/07/2019 22:29

Pronouns: "who's 'she', the cat's mother?"

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 09/07/2019 21:23

Haha be my guest wellhonestly, although I can't claim to have invented "milady" - I saw it used a few weeks ago unironically by one of the TRA academics who signed the counter letter again Kathleen Stock in the Times, and have been rather taken by it ever since.

wellhonestly · 09/07/2019 20:22

@ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving:

I hope you don't mind if I don't follow most of your suggestions - I just very much want to nick your idea of using the pronoun "milady". Grin Class.

DpWm · 09/07/2019 20:14

Womb was joking about your pronouns

Grin omgosh

Tyrotoxicity · 09/07/2019 18:05

Somerville you could shorten it to "third person singular" if you felt like being particularly obtuse?

0ttoline · 09/07/2019 16:27

I'm pretty sure Womb was joking about her pronouns.

Womb was joking about your pronouns.

JellySlice · 09/07/2019 16:19

Though that would only work if your badge says "My pronouns are..."

JellySlice · 09/07/2019 16:17

Somerville, change it to "obvious" Grin

Somerville · 09/07/2019 15:28

My workplace insisted on “updating” (I called it retrofitting) every personnel file with people’s pronouns. Mine says “genderfree so pronouns in line with my (female) sex”.
I have a conference in a few weeks where I’ll get a name tag printed with that on too. Though they’ve asked me for a short version - I might reply “adult human female”.

JellySlice · 09/07/2019 15:21

I'm not, thank goodness, likely to be told to indicate my pronouns, but I think my response would be "I, me, my" or "I do not force compelled speech upon others".

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 09/07/2019 14:36

mistermagpie I'm pretty sure Womb was joking about her pronouns.

Lysistrataknowsherstuff I've got a tenner on you getting an IWD email reminding you that IWD is about "ALL women" and that you need to check your "trans misogyny". No no, make it a twenty, I've got a good feeling about it.

Lysistrataknowsherstuff · 09/07/2019 10:57

Seeing as during Pride month work sent us all an email reminding us to think about our privilege as cisgender people (no idea how they know we're not transgender) and to fight cis sexism whenever we see it, I'm fully expecting to be asked to add my pronouns to my email signature.

To which I will reply that I will not do that due to the unconscious bias against women, and to reinforce that I am female will disadvantage me.

If I haven't been sacked by international women's day, I will be asking whether we'll all be sent an email reminding us to check our misogyny (and men to check their male privilege).

mistermagpie · 09/07/2019 10:36

@WombOfOnesOwn - I'm not being flippant at all, and this is all new to me, but I don't understand how your pronouns work. Do you mean other people refer to you as 'you' rather than your name or 'she'? I am trying to imagine how a conversation about you would go, could you expand?

popehilarious · 09/07/2019 10:31

"Please do not use pronouns when referring to me"

needmorespace · 09/07/2019 10:24

This seems to be creeping in at my workplace.
I will be putting my pronouns are obvious

LikeothersIamjustme · 09/07/2019 10:14

Surely it should be in the order: Me, Myself and I??

RoyalCorgi · 09/07/2019 09:50

Am very tempted to create an email signature that reads: "Pronouns: I, me, myself."

bingoitsadingo · 09/07/2019 09:21

The whole premise is flawed, pronouns don't belong to individuals I couldn't agree more but I think that ship has sailed for now. It's the reinforcing of gender stereotypes that's really bothering me at the moment - I've seen people arguing that trans people are breaking down gender stereotypes, when it seems to be the complete opposite to me (they are literally defining themselves by the stereotypes they want to fit Confused )
Thanks for all the recommendations - lots to read up on and arm myself with!

OP posts:
FermatsTheorem · 08/07/2019 22:20

I so want to steal your email signature, Grabthar.

I shall even identify as 35 in order to use it.

(I mean, what the hell, I liked being 35, it was a good time in my life, and I didn't have any late middle aged aches and pains and bits of my body starting to stop working properly...)

velourvoyageur · 08/07/2019 22:09

Also VG link you make OP between woke pronounage and the intransitive reinforcing of stereotypes you mention

velourvoyageur · 08/07/2019 22:07

Oo
I remember reading something the other day that was along these lines - it was either Deborah Cameron or Cordelia Fine
DC was not Verbal Hygiene, something refuting venus and mars - great book in any case

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 08/07/2019 21:41

Best suggestion yet Novina, if everyone can add the relevant sections of:

  • The GRA re: single sex excemptions
  • The equality act
  • The declaration of human rights
  • The declaration of the rights of the child
  • Cordelia Fine "delusions of gender"

to their email sig instead of pronouns, and insist that these be quoted in full each time you are referred to in the third person, we might get somewhere!

Or list you status relative to all 9 protected characteristics and harass everyone else to do the same:

"Hi David, thanks for sending me the minutes of that meeting - unfortunately though you forgot to make it clear in your email whether or not you're currently pregnant. I know that this is a pressing issue for men these days, so please correct it for next time. Best regards, Grabthar (white british, 35, not pregnant or on maternity, has not undergone gender reassignment, atheist, unmarried, heteroflexible cross-orientation demisexual agender nonbinary femme, pronouns: just "milady" for first, second, and third person speech)"

Novina · 08/07/2019 20:32

Maybe in chats with them ask them if this is not a breach of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights Articles 18 and 19 .. and quote those articles loosely [ freedom of thought and freedom of speech, that no-one can compel the speech or thought of another] and suggest they can look it up on Internet?

Maybe just put these articles in your email signature? Grin

JackyHolyoake · 08/07/2019 20:18

I'd start identifying as pronoun fluid. Fuck 'em.

This is, to my way of thinking, exactly the correct response!

JackyHolyoake · 08/07/2019 20:14

just the more woke areas of our organisation trying to get people to conform to their way of thinking*

Maybe in chats with them ask them if this is not a breach of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights Articles 18 and 19 .. and quote those articles loosely [ freedom of thought and freedom of speech, that no-one can compel the speech or thought of another] and suggest they can look it up on Internet?

I often think that these "Woke Folk" have no understanding of our Human Rights. Smile