Antinatalism has a point but it upsets me

Thanks for sharing that, Prawn. It’s all sweet, but I loved these bits:

I didn't want children at all. DH said that was fine.

One day I asked DH if he'd mind if I changed my mind. He just smiled in his laid back way, said no

Prawn that is a lovely post.

I didn't want children at all. DH said that was fine. He already had his adored DD. But from the week we moved in together we had DSD the whole weekend every week because her mum worked then.

Over the next few years I grew to love spending time with DSD. It was also really obvious that DH would never desert me. One of the reasons I didn't want DC was a dread of becoming a single parent.

One day I asked DH if he'd mind if I changed my mind. He just smiled in his laid back way, said no, and I got pregnant almost instantly. We had two DC and then, when they were still at primary school, DH died.

So I became a single parent, which I hated as much as I thought I would. But being a mother - which I never wanted until I was over 30 - has been the most rewarding, complex, challenging, wonderful thing in my life. I'm so grateful for my boys, and my DSD who taught me how lovely looking after a child could be. Such a darling.

I'm so grateful I have DH's sons and a half share in his DD. No one guilted or pressured me into it. It was entirely the right decision.

I have spent countless hours and all my emotional energy over 25+ years building kind, ethical young adults who will add to the world around them. I think it's been totally worthwhile.

And what hipsterfun said!

They’d hate me I’ve got 6 and another on the way.

All these nihilistic misanthropes are welcome to shuffle off voluntarily, at their earliest convenience, and take their profound psychological issues with them.

The rest of us ‘Western scourge’ can crack on with reducing our consumption and not exploiting our fellow humans.

If we fail to save ourselves, the world will keep turning and it’ll be as if we were never here. The universe doesn’t give a shit and the planet’s healed worse. Life, literally, goes on.

I wonder whether antinatalists consider the fact that the great increase in women working over the past few decades has also likely had a negative effect on the environment - more cars on the road etc.

Why is it all because of women though?
The issue with travel for work is because work isn’t next door anymore, it’s often 1 hour away by car. It has nothing to do with women.
If women don’t work, then someone has to do the work that they are currently doing. Who will that be? Some other men so we need an increase in population to be able to do all of it?

And why assuming that if women are at home, then they will obviously be staying at home and not travel etc.... When I had my dcs and I was at home, I was using my car MORE going to places with them p, taking them to activities Etc.... much more than I do now (as I have the chance of having my job just 15 mins away - a trip to the swimming pool was 20~25 mins away....)

That sort if idea seems to be based in more mysoginistic ideas than anything else tbh.

The other thing that I’m unconfortable about the fact that they seem to think there is no scope for human to get better. Yes human race hasn’t done very well, I agree. But I find the idea that it’s NEVER going to get better quite sad.

@sakura184
But what if the bad relationship we experienced is because our mothers were in no position to comfortably raise kids because they really didn't have the resources they needed
I think you need to remember that nothing will ever be so perfect that a mother will get ALL the support and/or ressources they need.
Even in relative terms, children born now in a western society are so much better than it was 100 years ago. Even 50 years ago. We have PLENTY on a material POV. And on an emotional POV, do you think it’s realistic to expect that one will get all the support they need? Humans have flaws, that’s how we are. That also means there is no way we can always support everyone the way they need to be. We can strive to offer help as much as we can. We can’t make it perfect iyswim.

Not wanting children is a sound feminist choice.

Thinking that other people shouldn't have them, makes you a nazi.

In my experience, it's usually those with misandrist tendencies that deny it's existence. Quelle surprise!

If by the "feminist" in question you mean the writer of that blog in what way is she a feminist?

There was a thread about misandry, which I think you said isn't a thing. Do the all the misandrist and misanthropic statements made by that writer somehow make her misogyny acceptable?

I think the author in question is a bit of a nutter tbh. Likely highly intelligent without any perspective or possibly a bit of a misanthrope.

The OP directed us to an essay on a blog by a feminist antinatlalist writer whom she admires. It contained this.

From where I’m sitting, it is self-evident that most if not all mothers are only mothers in the first place because they are just too stupid to realize how evil it is to create life under late stage capitalism and patriarchy (or they realize it too late) or they are actual sadists and users who only had children in the first place because of what those children would presumably do for them. Someone to dominate and control, someone to take care of her when she’s old

The tone and content of this brief excerpt catches the general tone. If this the feminist version of antinatalism, heaven help us from the ones who really don't like women.

Why this is being presented as being feminist (as opposed to the demented ramblings of someone who clearly has a very unhappy life ) entirely escapes me- but possibly I'm just too addled by the capitalist , patriarchal system to see the merit in this tirade.

A hard line antinatalist would be in favour of human rights abuses to wipe out the human race.

A moderate antinatalist believes having children is morally wrong, and that their life is of more value than someone else’s.

I'm a feminist and I definitely have sympathy with women who choose not to have children for their unborn child's sake and the sake of the planet and the rest of humanity.

There will be unpleasant, insulting antinatalsits, just like there are unpleasant, insulting women on this board. But there are also many of them feminists who deeply care about women's future and have made their heart wrenching decision to not have children for intelligent and compassionate reasons.

The posters on here who are generalising and hurling obscene insults are just as bad as any hard line antinatalsits imo.

I had to look up what antinatalism meant.

No, not feminists at all.

Just idiots who don't want kids and feel the need to dress it up in some self-important, bollox philosophy.

Just don't have kids, nobody cares!

What would this look like in practice? Societies with no men? Fencing off our own land and putting our sons out over the fence? I honestly don’t understand what you mean.

It’s the kind of dumb idea that makes most people think ‘Fuck the environment if that’s the alternative; I’ll go to work in scuba gear if I have to.’

I'd never heard of these people until today but they do seem to be nothing more than complete and utter fucking morons.Seriously insane. The kindest thing you could say is that they are mentally ill and need help.They're Nazis, hateful, ignorant fools who have nothing to offer. Vile. Certainly not feminists

Oh dear. Not the right kind of feminists now?

Just keep the men in labs, I'd say, and harvest their sperm. If you have a son, castrate him at birth or give him over to the sperm bank. Women who are unwilling to do that are handmaidens and must be reeducated.

Nothing worrying in all that.

What we should've been doing is organizing to preserve our water and land so we could cultivate food on our own terms instead of losing absolutely everything to men.

What would this look like in practice? Societies with no men? Fencing off our own land and putting our sons out over the fence? I honestly don’t understand what you mean.