Fascinating tweets about JY’s waxing case. Read here. (Thread title edited by MNHQ)

I'm not optimistic. The member advised JY how to proceed in JY's best interests with the lawyer (re online stuff). That and letting JY carry on with this bullshit kind of suggests there's some sympathy that I certainly didn't pick up with the poor, poor women being harassed in court by JY.

I know it's not a 'proper' court as we know it but I'm gobsmacked at the amount of "leeway" (as the member says) the Member is giving them. Surely at the very best a lot of it is purely a massive waste of time if it's not relevant? I was optimistic to start with that the Member was being even-handed but she seems to be permitting an awful lot.

I am no longer optimistic.

I suffered prolonged CSA as a child and as an adult I made the decision to seek justice. People tell you that you are being brave as though you are fearless but at that point in time I felt like I had pulled a lever to release all the hounds of hell to come after me.

I have read all of this thread and I don’t usually comment but I just wanted to say how much I admire Goinglikeelsie.

Being brave isn’t about being fearless, it’s carrying on despite being scared shitless.

I hope Goinglikeelsie is aware just how amazing we all think she is, how much support she has and that she isn’t deterred from attending after recent events.

The world is watching and if there’s one thing I’ve learnt from coming here it is that once you’ve been taught how to look, you can’t stop seeing!

can the judge compel psychiatric intervention for the whole brood? oh lorks, there isnt siblings is there?

I hope that if there is a win for the defendant, it's not to do with religion, or being out of area.

It should absolutely be decided on the basis of what the fucking hell are you thinking of?

Whatever the outcome, unless it's that ^ this should reverberate around the globe.

Countries considering self ID need to be held accountable as to what they would do in a similar situation.

PIG

The Person of Indeterminate Gender : PIG

Devyn Cousineau, has been discussed upthread as a supporter of trans right activism and somebody who has been photographed at relevant public demonstrations.

But also interestingly as I posted up thread:

The member for these cases is Devyn Cousineau http://www.bchrt.bc.ca/tribunal/about-us/members/cousineau.htm

From her bio this could be interesting in these specific cases:
Ms. Cousineau practised at a legal non-profit organization, practising anti-poverty and human rights law on behalf of low-income clients and in a labour law firm before joining the Tribunal.

So I still wouldn't want to call the result either way.

My money is on them winning the appeal/s. Clearly it would be a ludicrous outcome but it would be consistent with the ludicrous laws within which the cases appear to be situated. It's like the computer expression GIGO (Garbage in, garbage out).

The member, Devyn Cousineau, has been discussed upthread as a supporter of trans right activism and somebody who has been photographed at relevant public demonstrations.

what is the legal status of this tribunal and is there an appeal process if it rules in favour of The Person of Indeterminate Gender?

4.8 Judicial Review
If a party disagrees with the Tribunal’s decision, it can ask the Federal Court of Canadato review it. This is done by filing an application for judicial review with the Federal Court of Canada within 30 days after the time the decision was first communicated by the Tribunal to the parties.

www.chrt-tcdp.gc.ca/resources/guide-to-understanding-the-chrt-en.html

Well the second one said she didnt travel out of area, so that's an easy out for starters.

Disclaimer- I'm a British lawyer only and dont identify as Canadian trained.

It would be appalling publicity if he won

Well yes.

But if JY is trans and male people who self identify as women should be treated exactly like women, then how can he be excluded from any thing?

If it’s ok to exclude him then why?

Not true trans-why? What’s different about his transness to (say) Danielle Muscato’s or Shon Faye’s?

Not really a woman-why? Is that the end of self ID?

The judge’s reasoning is going to be fascinating. I presume she will explain her reasoning? I think that would be normal here

Can I ask: what is the legal status of this tribunal and is there an appeal process if it rules in favour of The Person of Indeterminate Gender?

Should be hilarious seeing JY come up against Jay Cameron. I wish there was a livestream. I'd pay.

The more I think about it, the more I don't see any way he's going to win this. He is an absolute embarrassment to his cause and someone who's drunk as much of the kool aid as Devyn Cousineau will realise that. He's like a caricature of everything that can go wrong when you allow any male perv to self ID as a woman, and a racist to boot. A gift to our side, to the extent that part of me almost wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be a setup. It would be appalling publicity if he won.

Yes Datun - isn't a certain person's go-to insult to women that they're hairy and barren?

Gender affirming care is detrimental sexist claptrap. Hair removal should in no way affirm that you are female.

No naming please, peeps. Initials only.

I don't get what PY meant about sleeping arrangements

Dropping this in as it has several articles that address gender-affirming care in Canada:

WHAT IS A GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE MODEL?
Gender-affirming care can be understood as the processes through which a health care system (or other types of health and social services) cares for and supports trans people by respecting their sense of self and chosen gender expression. By gender expression, we mean the way in which an individual chooses to express or display their gender. This could include things like choices of clothing, speech, or preferred names and pronouns. Most importantly, gender- affirming care recognizes that each individual expresses their self-described gender identity in unique ways and should be respected, cared for, and protected

It will be odd if hair-removal etc ends up being provided as part of the healthcare system tho' I doubt that that would provide social validation if that is integral to someone's sense of gender-affirmation.

www.pragmatichealthethics.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Brainstorm2019July10lowres.pdf

Several articles on health care for trans people.

Perjury: the crime of telling a lie in court after promising formally to tell the truth

JY does not have periods. Both JY and MY have lied giving evidence to the Tribunal.

This might help with some of the Qs as to why so many statements are left unchallenged

See http://www.bchrt.bc.ca/law-library/rules/2016version.htm for Rules of Practice and Procedure

Does the Tribunal advocate for me or represent me in my complaint?
No, the Tribunal does not act as an advocate. The Tribunal is a specialized court. It must be neutral. That means it does not take sides in a human rights complaint. This is because it may need to make decisions about the complaint and the complaint process that are fair to both parties.

Will the Tribunal investigate or prosecute the complaint?
No. The Tribunal does not have the power to investigate a complaint. The Tribunal does not act as a prosecutor. The Tribunal requires both sides to give each other information about the complaint.

The member for these cases is Devyn Cousineau
http://www.bchrt.bc.ca/tribunal/about-us/members/cousineau.htm

Tribunal members are administrative law judges who conduct mediations, decide applications to dismiss a complaint without a hearing, preside on pre-hearing conferences, conduct hearings and render final decisions on the merits of a complaint.

And from her bio (linked above) this could be interesting in these specific cases:
Ms. Cousineau practised at a legal non-profit organization, practising anti-poverty and human rights law on behalf of low-income clients and in a labour law firm before joining the Tribunal.

Lastly Members' Code of Conduct

http://www.bchrt.bc.ca/tribunal/about-us/members/members-code-conduct.htm

If JY does indeed possess both male & female genitalia, then that would make JY intersex.

Afaik, there have been possibly 1 or 2 actual hermaphrodites in the history of the human race - and they're contested - so JY would be beyond special if that is the case.

Some of the intersex commenters have some very helpful commentary as to why intersex is not hermaphroditism (despite the confusion in MSM reporting). And, why it's completely inappropriate or unfair to keep dragging intersex as a defensive shield into the discussion of trans issues.

I may be very wrong but I doubt JY is intersex or hermaphrodite.

I also think psychiatric assessment is relevant to the whole issue of his vexatious litigation history. I have no idea obv how the law would work over there or even here but I assume most vexatious litigants have some sort of obsessive character trait. The fact that these human rights tribunals are free for the litigant gives them a green light to continue this behaviour pursuing anyone who gives offence. It can not be right to allow that. At some point surely he should be banned from further cases. I believe in this country vexatious litigants once declared as such by a judge can have some sort of ban put on them.

Slight derail but my DD1 has just returned from a fab year at university BC in Vancouver. Drank some kool aid of course but still in possession of a bit of common sense thankfully. I'm very grateful her path did not cross this one as truly no one is safe from it in that city!