Just had a terrible shouty argument with a relative

StroppyWoman

I just find it hypocritical to complain about a man arguing and losing his temper when the OP did exactly the same.

Most posters are saying that the OP wasn't to blame, she was just reacting to her DB but the opposite argument wouldn't wash - if a man said it was a woman's fault that he list his temper and started shouting no one but that. He'd be told that it's up to him to control himself.

Why doesn't that apply to the OP? Are we not responsible for our own actions?

How exactly are we supposed to tackle something we can't talk about?

This is it exactly

Cant talk to your mum or sil or daughter or friend if there is a man there and they get upset

Sod that for a game of monkeys

Your brother was being a dick, OP. Hope it didn’t spoil your day.
Decomposing, what is your issue? You seem to be very busy trying to pick a fight.

Should I not discuss the fact that two teenage girls were groped (separately but 1 perpetrator) in a busy shopping street at 3pm last Monday?

Surely talking to your children about safety is entirely different to having a slanging match with your DB? You can do one without doing the other.

For whatever reason, it seems that you and your brother can't discuss these topics so why not stick to safe topics of conversation when you are together?

My friend and I have completely opposite views politically so we just avoid talking about it because we would no doubt fall out. She will never convince me to her side not her to mine so what's the point?

Post!

X pist

Any reasonable person who had black nieces and nephews would want to hear about their worries about white people, the police etc. It would be basic concern for young family members.

Yawninfinitum

I think it really depends how those conversations are framed though.

I would feel entirely different about a conversation about white privilege that was discussing, in general terms, how white people have institutional and societal privilege but if someone was directing it at me personally, saying that I am in someway to blame or that I should be doing more to challenge white privilege then I think that I would see it as a personal attack and respond accordingly. So, I guess my view on this depends largely on how this discussion was phrased.

My wider point still stands - having an argument like this, on any topic, in front of children is not great and the OP would have done much better to end it before it escalated.

Sadly you will now be painted as the hysterical one and it will serve only to cement his thoughts that you/feminists are irrational and deranged.

For that reason it’s a bad outcome and I always try and keep that in mind during such conversations as calm and cool always makes a better point.

You won’t change him so don’t bother.

As an aside tho to posters who are defending him on the basis that it is horrible as man to be constantly told about male violence as if it’s their fault etc etc -

My SIL works in the arena of VAWG and the subject comes up very regularly at our family get togethers and both myself and my sister are interested and involved in smaller ways in campaigning.

The men in our family- dad, BIL, my DB, DH and DSs all listen and actively join in condemning it and discussing it with focus on how it can better be tackled.
They don’t feel guilty on a personal level as they know they aren’t violent but they do accept it as a class effect of men and can provide really useful insights into male behaviour and socialisation. I know for a fact DH accepts he may unwittingly leap into male privilege and that he doesn’t always realise or even allows it to pass.

Just as per the previous poster giving the analogy of white privilege and POC having a conversation I could completely own having a part in that even if I don’t knowingly behave in a racist manner. I would listen to their thoughts and take it away and work on myself, not get angry and do the ‘not all white people are racist’ speech.

Yes i agree phin and end

I think to be honest the fault lies with the OPs brother here. The conversation was between the OP and her Mum, in essence he’s the one who should have wound his neck in and not made an argument of it at a family gathering.

If I was in his shoes and found either my sex/gender, sexual orientation or political views constantly belittled and it really made me feel that bad I’d just make other arrangements for Sunday Dinner.

Saying women and girls are scared of men is not saying all men are violent. His argument is ludicrous.

The only people who use the term misandrist are men’s rights activists.

I would avoid him.

He then joined in to tell us it made him feel bad us talking about male violence

I don't know why there's confusion about this, OP, you've made that pretty clear over the thread.

While we can’t know without being there, it does sound like he jumped into a conversation that wasn’t about him and made it about him.

In your DB's case, he was asking for it diving in someone else's conversation like that, though. That's just rude.

I don"t know. I can think of several family members who can have arguments with themselves pretty much. One of them goes on and on till someone takes the bait and the other two don't listen so it doesn't matter what the other person's replying.

Possibly a strict 'no politics in the kitchen' (or wherever) rule might be a way forward.

Personally, I have resolved never ever to discuss BREXIT with DH and a range of topics with DSis, DF and MIL.

I'm not interested in arguments with people who aren't interested in anyone else's views. What's the point?

Myra Hindley is a ridiculous argument back actually. She did what she did because she wanted to please Brady. That's not to say I'm absolving her of responsibility, she was truly wicked.

But tell him next time to find a spree or serial killer who is female who did so purely to satisfy their own violent and sexual depravity. He'll be hard pushed.

Again, not absolving the women involved in such atrocities of their own responsibility, but it's a very, very rare situation that it isn't for or because of a man and his desires.

I didn't say anyone was traumatised, those were the OPs words.

I said I didn't think it was a great way to behaving, shouting and getting angry in front of children.

The OP clearly said her dd was shaken by it. I think that's a problem that OP was equally to blame for.

DecomposingComposers you can't tell the difference between shaken and traumatised?

You're spoiling for a fight on a few threads, so I'm out. I'm not being someone else's source of bizarre entertainment, especially not when it's derailing and deflecting from an important topic.

Sorry OP.

Because I don't think starting a row, on any topic, over the Sunday lunch is a great idea, especially when you know it will get heated and when their are children there.

That's not saying you can't discuss these things but discuss them at an appropriate time.

I'd quite like to know what was actually said as well. Big difference between discussing the issue of male violence say, and keeping it very general and bringing it down to the individual and making them feel as though they are responsible for how every man behaves.