The impact of hearing trans widows stories?

The stories from these women are remarkable and shocking.
They live through this at the worst possible time culturally, where it's impossible (and at times dangerous to oneself) to even question trans ideology. And I feel so upset that their children are unable to find neutral support for fear of being thought transphobic. Late-transitioning male parents seem repeatedly to put their needs (rather than their children's) first, and display consistently misogynistic attitudes. I have an ex-colleague who did this, and his obsession with personal grooming, skirts, make-up, painted nails etc. was very marked. Plus he spent loads of money on himself and gave only minimal child maintenance which several of us thought shameful. The outdated male view of femininity shines through in the transwidows' stories and no decent feminist should be cheerleading for the new improved 'women' over the women and mothers left behind, often financially beggared to finance the sexist fabrication of a male's view of an ideal woman. It is so wearing that there is no debate, no open, safe, fairly-mediated discussion, for academics or people wanting to discuss this in the media. And yes, the aggression, the dominance, the bullying and the putting of onesself before others/children, is sadly so very male and so glaringly obvious. It can be the only reason people try to silence these women. Their real lived experience apparently counts for nothing, as does their self-identification. One rule for the departing men and another for these women. I think it's entirely appropriate that this thread should have been created and shared for us all to see what actually goes on; the media coverage is 99% positive, happy endings etc.

Reading these stories has had a big impact on me and how I see the world. Reading the FWR board on Mumsnet has had a big impact generally. I am now able to articulate my thoughts & ideas more clearly, even if only to myself. I can see how I have been so easily manipulated throughout my life. No more.

Not so long ago I had a lover, I didn't want anything else from him, who was married. I found out that he was into cross dressing and we talked about it. He'd been doing it in secret for years. His wife was having none of it (they were southern European, not sure if that made any difference), thought it was just plain wrong. I entertained the idea of his cross dressing being part of our secret sex life, but we actually split up for other reasons before that happened.

I had thought his wife was a boring old spoil sport, being unkind, all the other stuff. I now realise how very wrong I was - she knew she was in danger of losing the man she'd married and she wasn't going to smile and put up with it. Good for her.

I'm stunned reading all the transwidow stories, still shocked at the level of selfishness that some men consider more than acceptable and marvel at the way you deal with it. Much love to you all.

OldCrone - that quote from the Guardian article has never left me, to be honest.
I think about it a lot.

It made me so uncomfortable, I actually shifted in my seat. And what's worse is that that person isn't even an extreme example. It's all too common.

My heart and goes out to you all...

the other consistent strand here that stands out to me is males expecting to bond with women over stereotypically feminine activities, and how uncomfortable that often makes the women in question.

It's sexism dressed up as being your bezzie mate.

the other consistent strand here that stands out to me is males expecting to bond with women over stereotypically feminine activities, and how uncomfortable that often makes the women in question.

It's weird, isn't it? It's almost like they think being female is the same as performing femininity. As a not very feminine woman I find that really hard to understand.

One of the things I've learnt from Mumsnet is how to see previous failed relationships in a new light and
come to terms with the crap I put up with.

The trans widows threads I sincerely hope, as mentioned above, will be able to help people through an impossible time and encourage them to take a stance against the 'stunning and brave' narrative is that's what they choose to do.

Just out of interest, I see the numbers of trans people given at less than 1% but there seem to be millions on twitter, on marches, in schools, fire brigades - everywhere. Anyone know the likely real figure? I've only met two in my life, one who I think was definitely genuinely dysphoric in that she was so much visibly happier, calmer and relieved when he became she, and another who sounds like a typical AGP late transitioner who is shouty and aggressive and comes across as woman-hating

The trans widows threads can make a real difference. There might be women reading who are just at the start of it all and they might get an insight into what the coming years/decades could bring. This might give them to the confidence to say "no, I don't want this" and to leave the relationship. Or other women who are a year or two into it, reeling from what's happened, who will look at others' experiences and realise they need to get out as soon as possible rather than hope it's going to settle down into some workable arrangement where everyone's happy.

I very much resent the 'its just like being gay' comparisons. I found them harmful and it made everything worse for me because of the emotional blackmail that was laced into the comment. I find it grossly offensive and very belittling to women affected by this directly.

This makes complete sense to me. Red.

ploppers gonna plop, innit?

the other consistent strand here that stands out to me is males expecting to bond with women over stereotypically feminine activities, and how uncomfortable that often makes the women in question.

@MNHQ why has my post been deleted? I made no personal attacks or banned words, as far as I remember. You haven’t sent me an email to explain what I’ve done that someone has jumped on.

What I also find staggering is how many of the husbands who transition clearly don't give even a tiny shit about their children's mental health or wellbeing.

I posted a link to this Guardian article from 2012 earlier in the thread. This bit struck me as particularly chilling.

"What if you knew that doing this would destroy one or all of the children?" I asked him. Ice cold, the man I had once thought a wonderful father replied, "I would do it anyway."

Utter, utter selfishness.

Teenagers often feel embarrassed by their parents, but can you imagine if your dad wanted to pick you up from school dressed in fishnets and calling himself Jane? And people telling you you were a bigot for being embarrassed.

It's like a bloke who smashed his family apart to be his 'true self' for any other reason, every decent rational person would feel free to point out that his 'true self' is 'Total Git' and offer support to his devastated wife and kids.

It's only this reason that means people who think they are kind hearted liberals feel they have to laud the total git and ignore or verbally attack the wife.

Seriously, I don't use the phrase very often, but that's Essence de PeakTrans right there.

What Floral said 100 per cent.

The transwidows thread is eye opening. A lot of it is just horrible abuse but dressed up as an identity crisis - they are getting a free pass by society by being trans.

What I also find staggering is how many of the husbands who transition clearly don't give even a tiny shit about their children's mental health or wellbeing. Which is bizarre if they 'feel like a woman' because it's quite an unfeminine way to behave.

Also this If a bloke can self ID as a woman, then surely women can identify as trans widows. What shines through the stories is that to these abusive narcissistic men, the self ID is something that should only apply to them. They believe that their wives and children don't get to define themselves. Well, sod that. Firmly on the transwidows side.

Losing your husband because he comes out as trans is no different than losing your husband because he comes out as gay but no one would dream of talking about how the gays have stolen their husband.

I want to pick up on this.

No its not the same.

The guilt trip that it's 'just the same as being gay' comes from a position of extreme ignorance.

For a long time, I struggled with this idea. I wanted to believe it, but in practice it just wasn't the same.

If you are presenting physically in a different way, by pretending to be a woman this is hugely different and psychologically incredibly difficult to cope with.

'Being a woman' raises huge questions about a wife's (or sibling's in my case) own sense of self and worth.

For me it included this sense of competition and questions about how I appeared to the world. Did their understanding of what a woman was come from me? Then there's the hyper sexualisation of the presentation. Having a brother who was now a 'sister', felt like looking into a twisted mirror. I can imagine there is a similar sense for trans widows though without the family resemblance (but is applicable to their children).

It's also not just the physical side of it, but all the stuff about changing name and the expectation that you treat someone differently based on sexist stereotypes.

If you come out as gay, this is not something that is part of the process.

It's this gaslighting that makes it a different beast that goes further and deeper than any sense of betrayal and being lied to about their sexuality.

I very much resent the 'its just like being gay' comparisons. I found them harmful and it made everything worse for me because of the emotional blackmail that was laced into the comment. I find it grossly offensive and very belittling to women affected by this directly.

I have a friend who is a transwidow. Her husband's decision devastated her, and their kids are still reeling, some years down the line - significant MH issues, self esteem stuff, struggling at school. The father has remained entirely self absorbed through out, and hasn't supported his kids adequately financially never mind emotionally.

I have nothing but admiration for her and the way she has held everything together in the face of losing so much - including the partner she vowed to stay with until she died. They didn't just divorce, the man she married disappeared.

I read the transwidows threads and I see the same themes come out in each new woman's story - the narc husband, the utter selfishness of these men hellbent on their own obsession. The pain these women have been forced to endure is one of the things which, when I periodically check my motives to see if I am still convinced it's the right thing to stand against this ideology, dances before me and makes me quite upset - and damned sure that this whole lying edifice of trans ideology is rotten to the core.

I mean, here on this thread, just because it's not an explicit support thread and they know they can get away with it, they arrive with the only card they have, which is is this pathetic proxy whinge about the word widow.

And when a number of actual widows said "Fuck off and don't try and use my experience to back up your trans bullshit" one of them attempts some crappy subterfuge by repeating this twattish little whinge about the word widow but prefaces their insensitive shit with 'I'm GC but...' like we've never seen that shite before either.

I repeat, transwidows have my admiration, respect and determined support. Their spouses have my undying contempt, as do all the nasty little wankers who like to wound the transwidows for their own perverse sense of righteousness.

*Before homosexuality was as socially acceptable as it is now, it used to be the case that men would marry, have kids, and then come out later in life.

I'd imagine this is not dissimilar a situation.*

My father was gay. My parents divorced when I was a baby and my father committed suicide when I was about eight. But I remember him with great affection as do my older sisters. He didn't change his appearance, name, behaviour. He didn't mess with our minds and tell us he was our mother.

It must have been a horrible shock for our mother and she has never spoken of it, so I can't speak for her. (Homosexuality was illegal then so it must have felt very shameful, and my stepfather once let slip that they had to go away for a weekend followed by a private detective to get a divorce - the real reason couldn't be cited obviously). However they were on quite good terms, at least to my childish eye. He regularly came to stay, I remember sitting on his lap after supper as he smoked and my stepfather passed the port. My mother has never said a bad word about him, and sometimes reminisced happy times.

No, I don't think it's the same at all.

Has anyone watched Damned? By Jo Brand. It’s about social workers. There was a character whose mother was now their father. The child was struggling because everyone else was absolutely fine with it and they felt they had no space to adjust to it or talk about it.

I watched it! The kid was acting up and the school couldn't understand it because they'd had cheerleading assemblies and everything. Completely missed that the kid was traumatised.

Yes: handled very well.

People who believe that TWAW are terrified by the trans widows thread as can be seen by some of the responses on here. It has the power of sunlight.

I can in no way claim any real knowledge of how this must feel.

Many years ago, however, my Mum had a boyfriend called Michael. He was aggressively macho and postured a lot in our tiny overcrowded house (5 females). He left her for someone else and they lost touch.

Ten years later she got back in touch as Cathy. My Mum was open minded and over the relationship anyway. So they met. Cathy was very unpleasant when my Mum (who wore trousers all the time and had short hair and wore little make up) didn't want to go shopping, discuss celebrity gossip and go for manicures.

My Mum had never done these things, even with 4 daughters. She preferred walking the dog on the beach and going to the pub. They had met through a love of sailing but Cathy was nothing like my Mum.

I am only glad my Mum wasn't hurt, that time had passed. This person had been married 3 times, had 2 children. I cannot imagine the pain for Cathy's children, wife, ex wives. My Mum was just bewildered and irritated.