MN editorial on how wonderful surrogacy is

SimplySteveRedux I also had a difficult decision to make when I was older and became pregnant, only to have my health deteriorate and the foetus not grow properly. It was and remains the most painful thing I’ve experienced, made worse by the horrible lack of compassion in the care I received. Please don’t read my objection to surrogacy as a lack of understanding or thought for those that experience horrible pain with infertility, miscarriages or terminations. I’m just prioritising differently to you.

SimplySteveRedux

Thank you for that. I have really hideous complicated hormone issues that have blighted my life and completely disrupted my family plans, in my culture it’s very common to have large families and I grew up in an extended one that I loved growing up and imagined I would have. Miscarriages are truly horrendous things to experience. In prioritising those I believe are most affected by surrogacy, I am not ignoring or dismissing the pain of infertility, I live it myself. I do not believe that distress and feelings of longing should mean that you get to hire out another woman’s body, potentially affecting her life for long after the child is born ( like in my case ) and then separating mother and child. I chose not to do it, despite the fact I knew I would likely not be accepted for adoption at the age I wanted to because I was too ill.

So what’s your point then? I’m not really interested in conversations that imply one persons pain or disappointment is worse than someone else’s. Miscarriages and infertility are painful and difficult, whether you have a child already or not.

I'm sorry you read a lack of empathy and compassion in my post. DP became infertile after DD was born, watching what she went through was impossibly tough, I truly meant no disrespect.

Why should surrogacy be banned??

If surrogacy is not banned, then the surrogacy system has to provide for all of the failed transactions. The disabled children, the ones that are no longer wanted, and the women who sustain injuries.

Why doesn't it do that already? Why do people have to be forced to do the right thing?

The point being made here, @decomposingcomposers, is that the pain of infertility does not trump the pain of the child deliberately cut off from his or her biological mother. It’s deemed “callous” on this thread to say surrogacy is wrong. I find it utterly callous that the rights and feelings of the child produced by surrogacy are so utterly ignored.

I was raised by my biological mother and, despite the fact that our relationship has now broken down, I am extremely grateful that in my early years I was loved and nurtured by her. Unfortunately the same is not true of my biological father who sold his sperm for money and didn’t even know of my existence until recently. I am telling you that being deprived of contact with one of your own parents is a lifelong burden.

So what’s your point then? I’m not really interested in conversations that imply one persons pain or disappointment is worse than someone else’s. Miscarriages and infertility are painful and difficult, whether you have a child already or not.

Are you trying to say that it’s not a big deal if you already had a child? That’s rude and lacks compassion.

Obviously not.

Why should surrogacy be banned??

I’ve just read it and all I can say is “eww”
Agree that’s its very one-sided, making surrogacy looks like a rosary basket of rainbows
Even the word “surrogacy” makes me cringe a bit. I feel “Rent-A-Womb” is more accurate

You have no idea what I think

Yes we do, you’re writing your thoughts here and have only one focus. We have every idea, since you’ve contributed quite a few comments. What a silly thing to say!

SimplySteveRedux

Are you trying to say that it’s not a big deal if you already had a child? That’s rude and lacks compassion.

Jessica, you mentioned you were able to have a child before infertility. People like my daughter don't have that opportunity to begin with.

And again, the distress of an infertile person should not be prioritised over the exploitation of women’s bodies, the risk you’re asking other women to undertake, and the rights of the child. None of which you actually acknowledge or seem to care a jot about.

You have no idea what I think so it's quite presumptuous of you to assume that you do.

The reason I referenced global reproductive levels is because you mentioned it being a biological imperative. It is, but NOT on an individual level! JFC.

Of course it's a biological imperative on an individual level. What drives us to want to have children? The desire for an Instagram moment? JFC!!

And again, the distress of an infertile person should not be prioritised over the exploitation of women’s bodies, the risk you’re asking other women to undertake, and the rights of the child. None of which you actually acknowledge or seem to care a jot about.

And yes, it is glib to say that a girl facing infertility through illness should adopt, without once acknowledging the distress that she may feel.

I AM INFERTILE! I also DID acknowledge how hard that is. I also didn’t say anyone SHOULD adopt, I said it’s AN OPTION.

I’m writing in capitals because you, as per usual here, completely and utterly misrepresent others actual words.

The reason I referenced global reproductive levels is because you mentioned it being a biological imperative. It is, but NOT on an individual level! JFC.

But we don’t have a global problem with finding fertile men and women do we, so that’s another irrelevant whataboutery point from you.

And I'm the one having a problem with basic understanding and twisting of words?

I wasn't talking about a global problem. I was talking about on an individual level. Why does a woman facing infertility care that globally enough people are fertile to carry on the human race?

And yes, it is glib to say that a girl facing infertility through illness should adopt, without once acknowledging the distress that she may feel.

If that were my dd I would be a surrogate for her in a heartbeat. Just as I would donate an organ to them if they needed it.

MAR 06, 2019
Truthdig article by Julie Bindel
"A Surrogate Mother’s Cautionary Tale"
(extract)
"In a number of countries, including the U.K., there are moves to legalize commercial surrogacy, which would allow the surrogates to receive a fee, as well as expenses, and give legal rights to the commissioning parents. Lawyers and campaigners lobbying for such changes often use California as a “best practice” model. Barrie and Tony Drewitt-Barlow, for example, a U.K. gay couple who have five children through surrogacy, now run the British Surrogacy Centre of California, which allows British commissioning parents to sidestep current U.K. surrogacy laws.

I asked Annie what she would like to see happen to educate potential surrogates about the realities of the experience.

“I want surrogacy to be illegal,” she says. “If I had known what I know now, I never would have done it.” (continues)

www.truthdig.com/articles/a-surrogate-mothers-cautionary-tale/

Im shocked MN posted such a clearly biased editorial at a time when UK surrogacy laws are under review. Its very clear elsewhere how powerful a lobby group there is to move UK laws nearer to US commercial ones. UK laws currently centre the rights of child, rather than 'commisioning' adults.

The number of people waiting for kidneys outstrips the number of donors, and people actually die waiting for a kidney transplant. But we still don't allow sale of organs for money.

What I find interesting in this comparison is you can altruistically donate a kidney and receive no information about the recipient, whereas in altruistic surrogacy this isn't the case.

That's a very glib response. Adoption is an incredibly difficult journey and many of the children have significant extra needs. I don't think it's as easy as saying "oh just adopt" to anyone who can't have children.

It’s good I didn’t say ‘just adopt’ then isn’t it? You have a persistent problem actually reading people’s words and twisting them, it’s irritating. I acknowledged it’s difficult, I’ve said it’s an option.

You can’t imagine how hard it is to want children and not have them, well I know as I was in that position. My feelings aren’t more important than the basic rights of humans not to be exploited. It’s not a right or entitlement to have children. Reproduction is essential for the continuation of our species, that’s true. But we don’t have a global problem with finding fertile men and women do we, so that’s another irrelevant whataboutery point from you.

That is a desperate story Glitch and yet there is almost nothing to prevent this happening again.
In particular the fact that the "host" mum has learning disabilities, that they never met until they signed the surrogacy agreement, and that the agreement was just made up by them.
And of course the expenses - I am reminded of the current Archers storyline.

A child born of surrogacy cannot consent to the imposed burden of their unnatural conception and birth. They cannot consent to being denied the 4th trimester, which research tells us is very important to development.

It's possible that may scar them more emotionally than natural infertility which no one person has imposed.

Being infertile was shit, it would have been more shit if a person had foisted that state upon me. As it was it was just the luck of the biological draw (and luckily for me the doctors were wrong).

From what I can see given what's online, emotional outcomes for surrogate children as children are pretty good (via Wikipedia, can't easily link on my phone but can dig it out) but not much data on outcomes for them as adults not least as many have not yet reached adulthood, presumably as the practice being comparatively recent.

Really interesting to see the perspective of the poster here who has personal experience as the child, now adult. Their voice is really crucial, I'd like to hear more from them.

The thing is, people who are dying from organ failure would really like to live, does this mean they are allowed to buy organs? No. The number of people waiting for kidneys outstrips the number of donors, and people actually die waiting for a kidney transplant. But we still don't allow sale of organs for money.

The emotional argument always centres on the adults too. What about the child? What if the child born of surrogacy is unhappy about it? What about their right to have a life free from emotional pain?

And I was infertile for many years and told I couldn't have children, I never would have considered buying one.

Your DD can adopt, yes it’s a hard process but it’s an option that is available and there are many children who need and deserve good parents.

That's a very glib response. Adoption is an incredibly difficult journey and many of the children have significant extra needs. I don't think it's as easy as saying "oh just adopt" to anyone who can't have children.

Reproducing is a biological imperative, it's the reason we are here at an evolutionary level. I can't imagine how hard it must be to want children but not be able to have them. I'm not saying that means those people have the right to use others in order to have children but a little bit of compassion wouldn't go amiss. Not just a "well she can adopt".