Genuine question to any lesbian woman who feels like answering

I think its bi women that are dating TIM and they just all say queer now.

This was true of the only woman I've known to date a TW. When I met her she said she was bi but preferred women, then she met a TW and started calling herself queer. They split up pretty quick as (get ready to be shocked) the TW was a self absorbed domineering entitled twat. I didn't ask her many questions about it all as it wasn't my business, but I definitely got the impression she felt like she had to give them a chance to prove she wasn't transphobic. It must really really suck to be a young lesbian atm.

What happened to pansexuals?

I've never heard/seen anyone refer to it in the feminism boards (but admittedly I do pop in and pop out quite frequently so I really may babe missed it).

If it is still around, why are people hesitant to use it?? A person who is sexually attracted to a trans person is pansexual... aren't they?

Why do you need to understand who is sleeping with who and why?

I think we can all agree that the world would be a better place if we tried to understand each other a bit less.

I think it's bi women who call themselves lesbian or 'queer' that want to date TIM.
I'm bi and I have felt attraction to trans men and trans women. I like androgyny too.
I wouldnt date someone who wasn't gender critical though.
However I definately only feel those attractions because I'm bi.
I think its bi women that are dating TIM and they just all say queer now.

I will press on, however. I am no quitter. I am a rebel. I don’t accept things just because that’s “the way they are.” I will continue the quest for my fair maiden. The Cotton Ceiling must be broken

That whole article actually sends shivers down my spine, with the sense of entitlement and ownership of lesbian’s bodies.

I don't think it was that one - I seem to remember it was something about dancing on a bar? - but that is a very insightful article for all the wrong reasons.

The writer notes that 'the look and the feel of [biological women's] bodies are just plain magical' and prefers them to all others. But is unable to accept that women might have the same feeling and want to make the same choice. The plain feeling of superiority over women and the seeing of women as props not people is writ large. Not attractive.

From that article: All we ask for is a chance to love who we want to love and be who we want to be…

Yes, so do lesbians.

and for many transwomen — that is a woman. We are women. Love us like one.

Yeah, we're back to 'do what I want and not what you want'. Why? Because the writer feels more important, more necessary, that women don't need to have their feelings or choices respected. So they don't truly see themselves as women, they see actual women as a separate group lower in status than them.

Who's up for a giant game of masochistic co-dependency, mindless self sacrifice and accepting less in life because it's so jolly nice to give your all to make someone with a penis happy? Not me. We have entire boards at MN trying to help women escape situations like this.

This one Michelle?
This was one of the first I came across. The entitlement is off the scale:
"the cotton ceiling must be broken".
No one is entitled to sex, particularly not from a group that specifically excludes you.
I wouldn't badger a straight women for sex as it would be unpleasant for them and totally disrespectful. What gives (some) transwomen the right to harass lesbians??
If no is the answer then think about it and leave us alone.
tgforum.com/the-cotton-ceiling/

What I remember an article years ago by a self identified lesbian voicing the frustration that lesbian women made them welcome socially, were keen to include them, were very nice to them in all ways, but then refused when the writer tried to take a friendly relationship into a sexual one.

What I heard was the mismatch of realities: women are usually careful not to be too nice to men because they know how often this can be misinterpreted as 'you're on for sex' and it can end in a tricky, or even violent situation. Women in this case were keen to be kind to someone they saw as in need, so treated them socially as they would treat another woman, and were bitten as this person viewed this as the same 'we're on for sex' signals as generally others born with penises would when communicating with people born with vaginas. The writer then felt 'led on' and unfairly rejected at the last hurdle to sex.

I am a lesbian. I don’t do dick, of any arrangement, natural state or surgically redesigned. Any woman who does is not a lesbian.

Quite apart from the utter devastation the T have raught on the lesbian community, I can’t see what good it does the bepenised and erstwhile bepenised lesbian identifiers either. I do know a few lesbians, actual lesbians, who think twaw, but who freely admit that they’d never go out with a male. Personally I don’t think it’s the kind and compassionate thing to do to tell a group of people that they’re perfectly welcome in your group, despite having no intention of includeing them, and not expecting anyone else to include them either. What even is the point of that? You wouldn’t invite someone to a party knowing full well that all the other guests will ignore them and resent their presence. That would be out right cruel, to everyone. I get really angry with lesbians who go along with the twaw pretence. It’s not being kind, and if they think that then they’re either stupid, selfish, or completely deaf and blind to the way they’re being coerced and manipulated.

I think it’s actually more likely to be a ‘woke’ heterosexual woman who would date a transwoman and claim that it is a lesbian relationship.

Magdalene Berns has a good video on Youtube where she comments on a video two young alleged "lesbians" have put on Youtube. One of the "lesbians" has a girlfriend with a ladydick and she just seems so brainwashed. It is so obvious to me, that they made that video to appease the "girlfriend" with the ladydick.

Redefining "lesbian" to include literally anyone is dangerous to actual lesbians.
What has gone on at recen Pride events is a black mark on LGBT.
Even if some (hypothetical) lesbians claim to be ok with male people, that is still no reason for the current abuse of those of us who say no.
But there is no one to speak up for us. Even Stonewall have got rid of homosexuality as a thing to be protected. Such a shame gay men are not under the same homophobic pressure to accept female people or this mess would never have got off the ground. Women are always told to "be nice" now extending to what it little more than conversion therapy.

I was called 'homophobic' (a homophobic lesbian, who knew) on MN a couple of weeks ago for saying a lesbian was a biological woman who was sexually oriented to other biological women.

Apparently 'lesbian' is a term anyone should be able to choose for themselves, regardless of their biological sex or sexual orientation and it's 'homophobic' to assign specific meaning to it.

I gave up on the conversation at that point, as the homophobia of the person calling me homophobic (without the faintest clue of what it meant or the irony of it) was too tedious to be buggered with. You can't argue with stupid.

(To the creepy blokes who stalk MN to tut about uppity women, please note here the lack of throwing myself about at HQ sobbing about being unsafe and hate crime and ringing up PC Gull to report everyone..... and I was born at a time where if you held hands with your girlfriend in public you were in danger of violence. And not the 'literal violence' kind, the kind actually involving blood, hospitals and threats to life.)

I am a 60 year old lesbian, who grew up in a time where lesbians were out and proud, we created our own spaces frm the ground up. The problem I see is identity politics. If a misogynist male can "identify" as a lesbian he can speak about what lesbians are, and in typical male form, threatens anyone who disagrees with the slur "terf".
These "lesbian-males" are the same as any straight dude who tells women to suck his dick. It is rape culture, it is wrong, but NO males are speaking out against it so it is acceptable.
Think about this: the most dangerous place to a lesbian to be is at a Dyke March.
It's a goddamn nightmare for lesbians, the call is coming from within the house!

This thread explains a bit about what's going on:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3146166-Transactivism-and-the-lesbian-community

ahumanfemale they all think TWATW. I think people who believe “TWAW” are a very tiny, but very powerful segment of the population. I suspect around 6 billion people would find it exceedingly odd to define “woman” without references to female bodies.

Any "lesbian" who is attracted to a male is not a lesbian, just a straight or bi woman who has appropriated the term. I think there are some older lesbians who are supporting the agenda for their own reasons but would never actually entertain sexual relations with a transwoman (Much like LOJ is so passionately pro the belief that TWAW and shouts down all the lesbians and other women who dare speak up but was disgusted at the suggestion that he might consider going down on a transman).

There are some younger (actual) lesbians though who are being persuaded that they should overcome their genital preferences and have sex with transwomen. I've seen online young women really beating themselves up about how they are struggling to cope with sex with someone with a penis and all the messages that this is a prejudice, that they are a bad person for feeling this way and that they need to persevere.

In previous generations, many lesbians tried to force themselves to be straight and got married and had sexual relationships with men before eventually accepting their sexuality and coming out. This is the current day equivalent, except it's the LGBTQ community rather than wider society which is pressuring them to do it.

I'm not a lesbian, but there does seem to be a perception at the moment that "all women are a little bit bi" that I find extremely irritating. And I think this fuels the trans "lesbian" agenda by making it seem that women can be easily swayed in their sexual preference.

No, no we're not any more than men are. Some people are bi. But women usually do have a distinct sexual preference. I am straight. I do find some butch lesbians attractive to the eye, but when it comes down to the bedroom I want dick. If my partner took their clothes off and there was a vulva instead I would be instantly turned off. Plus, a woman doesn't smell sexy to me. When I kiss a man I get turned on by the smell of his skin and a woman wouldn't do it for me, no matter how male she presented.

I am sure most lesbians feel this way also. They want a woman who smells like a woman and has a vulva. And they are perfectly entitled to want that in a sexual partner and to refuse those who do not have features that they find attractive.

Why do you need to understand who is sleeping with who and why?

When I was involved in what was called the LGB society at university 20+ years ago, the prevailing view even then was that you could define your own sexuality regardless of your actual behaviour. The sexual health information circulating at the time all acknowledged that some lesbians may sleep with men, some gay men may sleep with women. I never really got my head around it but I accept that people’s sex lives are complicated. It’s a bigger issue now that certain people feel entitled to sex with anyone of their choosing...

It is upsetting. I had to come off Twitter a while ago as there are so many males on there pretending to be lesbians, and trying to shame us for our sexuality.
There is only so much LGBT backed homophobia anyone can deal with.

I just don't understand this desire to be so unthunkingly PC as someone else mentioned. It has led to a situation where a genuine oppressed minority (homosexual females) have become further marginalised by people falling overthemselves to validate the fetishes of straight white males.

@PhoenixBuchanan
I think that is a good point, there is a persuasive attitude about lesbians (that does not exist around gay men) that we are all just choosing to exclude males rather than it being an unchangeable aspect of our sexuality.

I didn't choose to reject men I have always had uncontrollable attraction to other females.
This idea that female sexuality is fluid is so damaging (maybe it is fluid for some but I wish they wouldn't then pretend to lesbians. They are surely bi?).

No one does this shit to gay men.
No one tries to say their sexuality is fluid and it is very rare to see anyone tell gay men to get down on a trqnsman. The double standard just shows how little respect people in LGBT have for lesbians.
Doesn't matter how many fishnets/heels and poorly fitting dresses someone wears - I am not going to have sex with a male person ever again in my life even if they put a pink bow on their girldick.
Been there, done that, hated it. If male people want sex, surely they would have more chance with straight women? I not here to validate anyone's delusions.

Most of it is Cognitive Capture, and Regulatory Capture.

Do not anger the Gods Of Tran.

Or, breastbind, take testosterone, try to identify out if the whole cluster fuck.

I get emotional vertigo when I think of my path if I was a 19 year old lesbian today, instead of in the 80's.

I don't however personally know a single lesbian in a relationship with a trans woman. I know a couple in relationships with trans men, and in those cases both members of the couple seem rooted in reality and are well aware of the fact that they are in a same sex relationship.