Mhairi Black

They could have a point about some chemical imbalance, but this would be present from birth and would simply mean they were more masculine or feminine in personality. Much like studies which show male offenders have high levels of (I think testosterone) which is thought to cause them to be more aggressive. This would not however draw the conclusion that they are the opposite sex as that is determined by chromosomes.

There's one sure fire way of letting dodgy sexists into power:

Abdiction of political engagement and organising of actions of Women.

And? Where have I said I don't engage politically? And what does the second part of the sentence mean?

Agreed rufus, it was Chinese people querying those runners’ sex which prompted this into the English language media.. if they hadn’t we would be completely unaware.

Who on earth is tessa in the twitter link zebras posted

They must REALLY struggle in life

Why are the user names always so obvious. 1/10. Mhairi does have fans, though.

19 I dont have much time for any of them

I completely understand but......

There's one sure fire way of letting dodgy sexists into power:

Abdiction of political engagement and organising of actions of Women.

Which is of course, what is being encouraged.....

I'm interested that so many 'super-smart' people seem not to be able to see what's going on here.

At the moment I'm sitting back and watching two friends of mine, both with science PhDs, managing to stay woke and hip by taking the line that hormonal fluctuations during gestation may be responsible for making married fathers in their 40s and 50s suddenly decide that they were born into the wrong body and urgently need to get into a frock. I intervened sarcastically at one point and suggested that perhaps blood types and antibodies might have something to do with it and they thought it was a serious suggestion and gave it some attention before ruling it out.

What is it about some very clever people that means that they can debate differences at a cellular level and get excited about anomalies but overlook the fact that whether one is born with a vagina or a penis determines, to a huge extent and the world over, one's earning power, career prospects and time spent carrying out housework – and for much of the world, one's right to vote, have an education, show one's face in public and go out without an escort. What do they think they understand that we don't?

I'm as unconvinced by that statement as I am by the opposing statement that a poster gets apologised to because they are clocked as a woman

Whenever anyone has bumped into me they’ve just said sorry

I would say before they have even looked at me

19 I dont have much time for any of them, tbh. I'm ever on the lookout for one who knows what a woman is and is prepared to protect the rights and freedoms women in the UK deserve. Not really very complicated. Mhairi doesn't qualify, sadly.

Which MP do you prefer then Magdalen?

Cor, the pro-Mhairi posters on this thread are making such fabulous arguments. I could so easily be swayed into thinking she was amazing by the repeated insistence that "She's great!" with no evidence to back up that assertion whatsoever.

Is this "sharing a toilet" done tandem or side-saddle?

Black is great. So is the SNP right now.
Unless you're a brexitty man.

^deep thought

I think this automatic assumption that because I am a woman therefore my opinion is more accurate than anybody elses on this: well no, not if you're an uninformed woman. I mean if you're a woman who has never met a trans person in your life, or who's never taken the time to actually understand things then you know, you're failing at it. (my empasis)

Interesting isn't it, that Mhairi is framing objectors as the uninformed here as well as suggesting that if only we'd meet the lovely trans people she knows, we would all know better.

DS1 at first was very offended when I talked to him about the issue. Once I dug deeper, it turned out that he's friendly with a medically transitioned HSTS in the year above him at university who from the description was probably puberty blocked and put on cross sex hormones by 16. He had no idea that people like his friend (who'd been seeking advice about boyfriend troubles) were already protected by the law but that the law was now to be extended to crossdressers etc.

It's entirely likely that Mhairi knows mainly or only HSTS. In fact as she is homosexual herself I fully expect that during her time at university, she'll have had far more contact with them at first, especially with transitioned/transitioning lesbians than crossdressers and autogynephiles.

Any later contact with the boundary violating type may well be filed away as deviations from the norm, even though crossdressers and Autogynephiles vastly outnumber HSTS in real life.

Her toilet argument does sadly come across as immature and a demonstration of that which she accuses us of - she simply hasn't thought deeply enough about it to truly understand.

Toilets at home are:

• not open to the public so that no random stranger will ever walk in off the street, half drunk at 2am.

• not normally mixed-sex multi-entry facilities but unisex single-entry facilities instead.

One room containing one toilet plus sink (and possibly also shower/bathtub) that only one person at a time can use to relieve themselves.

• rules of engagement can be arranged with the people one lives with, for instance in a shared flat (something Mhairi may be familiar with).

My son shared with girls in his student digs for several years and whenever they had more than one toilet/bathroom, they strictly limited each toilet for the use of one sex only.

Similarly at home, as I am the only female member of the household, I have set strict privacy rules. And my kids are now far too embarrassed to want their privacy violated to not understand why I insist on mine. I'm not saying it's perfect, but we have agreed rules even between people who love and respect each other.

It's sound bites and lazy thinking more than Mhairi's insults that disappoint me. I do strangely enough appreciate opponents who put a lot of deep though and much effort into their arguments. Alas, based on this interview that clearly is not Mhairi.

The whole "but you share loos with males at home" thing is such a self gotcha.

Yes, I do share my loo with DH, DS and invited guests of both sexes. (note the word in italics, it's important)

I have never yet walked into my loo to find some strange person in there. Not even a workman.

If these people think that they might meet random strangers in their loos at home, that could be because they have opened their bathrooms to the public, in which case it would be useful to let people know where they live so that a wider range of the public could use them too.

If they do actually safeguard their personal space, then why are they allowed to do that, while the prevent women from doing the same?

I certainly do not share any of my toilets at home with random strangers!

Spoiler: it's because we share toilets at home

I'd love to sit MB down and introduce her to my ex. With whom I did indeed share a toilet. Until he developed a pissing fetish as a result.

I do wish women would stop assuming that, because we are equal, we all think in exactly the same way. MB would never dream of sexually assaulting anyone in the ladies' so she can't get her head round the idea that any man would. Baffling.

I got as far as this, about half way through:

My whole thing has been - if someone has said something I can't answer I need to go away and think about it. But if I've thought everything through and I've genuinely provided an answer for everything and I still can't figure it out, and I don't think even you can figure out what your issue is, what do you want me to do with that?

I think this automatic assumption that because I am a woman therefore my opinion is more accurate than anybody elses on this: well no, not if you're an uninformed woman. I mean if you're a woman who has never met a trans person in your life, or who's never taken the time to actually understand things then you know, you're failing at it. It's the same way where, you know, people think that racism has to come from a place of hatred or homophobia has to come from a place of hatred - and that's where we see a lot of people getting upset that they're called transphobe because 'I'm not being hateful, how am I transphobic?' Well, in actual fact, you can be racist without being hateful and that's a part of the whole practice of listening.

I'm not an expert on this but see if loads of BAME people were telling me, 'By the way Mhairi, I think you're a bit out of line with that' or 'do you realise that when you say these things it actually perpetuates myths and things?' If I choose not to listen to that then I'm the one choosing to stay ignorant. And I think exactly the same thing is happening with the trans community just now, with people saying that that's transphobic. I'm not calling you a transphobe I'm just saying have some self awareness. And if people are sitting there genuinely going, 'I can't see for the life of me where I've been a transphobe,' then you need to do work, because that person isn't making it up.

Hey Mhairi Black - YOU are an uninformed woman. You haven't answered anything, you've just ridiculed women for raising issues affecting our safety and our rights. You 'still can't figure it out' and by now that looks wilful. You have deliberately avoided taking the time to understand things. You, Mhairi Black, are failing at it. You can be misogynist without being hateful and that's a part of the whole practice of listening.

if loads of women (cunty sort) are telling you, 'By the way Mhairi, I think you're a bit out of line with that' or 'do you realise that when you say these things it actually perpetuates myths and things?' If you choose not to listen to that then you're the one choosing to stay ignorant. And I think this is exactly what's happening for women and girls just now, with people saying that that's misogynistic. I'm not calling you a misogynist I'm just saying have some self awareness. And if you, Mhairi Black, are sitting there genuinely going, 'I can't see for the life of me where I've been a misogynist' then you need to do work, because we're not making it up.

By the way Mhairi, I think you're a bit out of line with that.

Love from a woman who's been mixing with trans people since before you were a foetus and has been growing increasingly alarmed since you were about 16.

Hate to do the age rank thing and I'm only doing it now because I still have hope you'll grow the fuck up and be fantastic.

Actually I think 3mks is right, well according to this study anyway .. although to be honest its slightly beyond me!

I don't think this has been posted yet - it's the full length interview from which the clip in the OP is taken ...

... in which Mhairi Black explains to a Nodding Man With A Beard why there's nothing wrong with the term T*F, why there's no logical reason for women to object to 'cs', why women are making a silly fuss about toilets and other single sex spaces (Spoiler: it's because we share toilets at home and because Men Will Rape You Anyway and because we haven't complained until recently). My blood pressure would only cope with me watching the first half of this interview, I might tackle the second half tomorrow.

It's an absolute TRA bingo card of wrongness and I suspect it will age very badly. It's a shame because in many ways Mhairi Black is a remarkable woman. Oh well.

Bespin was too busy laughing about women's sport being erased today - because it's just too funny right?

twitter.com/ana_iamhuman/status/1168096607801397248 Because this is absolutely definitely a woman, bigots

Awww bespin missed all the excitement

”The tone is just so childish my head just went ooh handbags”

Gold lamé I hope, Girl.

Though the ladies in your photo are brandishing a very fetching pair...

@MockersthefeMANist yeah. She had just been in the middle of the horrific Bloody Sunday massacre by the Paras and was witnessing the beginning of what would be the decades-long cover-up. Obviously hitting someone is wrong but it wasn't exactly an average day in parliament. I don't think Mhairi Black could claim she was severely provoked when she decided to call women cunts.

And yes, Bernadette Devlin dealt with rank overt sexism that later generations of women cannot imagine.