Lancaster Pride 19 Expose

Utter bollocks. Articles written about it by trans people that date back years, bloody workshops held about it, funded fucking workshops about how males with trans identities can get women to get their knickers off. If you want more links, I have the links

cf Stonewall

December 2018 Times article by Andrew Gillingham:

'Lottery thousands pay for former trans stripper to sway public opinion
After the £500,000 given to Mermaids, the same amount has gone to Stonewall to ‘empower transgender leaders’

(extract)
"Dressed only in a glittery bra and panties, Morgan Page is performing Wardrobe Changes and Four Cocks, a no-holds-barred cabaret routine about her encounters as a Toronto sex worker, including one with a trans client boasting “the world’s smallest testicular implants, the size of Cadbury’s Mini Eggs”.

Life has moved on for Page since then. Now in London, she is working for the advocacy group Stonewall on its “transgender leadership programme”, which is managing a new national lottery grant of almost £500,000. This was given to Stonewall to “empower trans leaders and organisations” with a “particular focus on leadership, media and influencing”. (continues)

Page’s activism in Canada may not assuage those feminist concerns. In 2012, amid some controversy, she ran a workshop called Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling. The “cotton ceiling” is a term used by some trans lesbian women to criticise biological lesbian women for refusing to have sex with them because they have penises. (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lottery-thousands-pay-for-former-trans-stripper-to-sway-public-opinion-6lw9xbwgr?shareToken=10e92e122d1aa44c5638be01f5233b42

the idea of the cotton ceiling was not created by us, its a term that was used by GC people and was perpetuated by them

Utter bollocks. Articles written about it by trans people that date back years, bloody workshops held about it, funded fucking workshops about how males with trans identities can get women to get their knickers off. If you want more links, I have the links. I really fucking have the links because it was this crap that made me GC.

So yet again, what you're trying to paint as 'wrong' by GC women is GC women noticing this crap, calling it out for what it is and telling as many other women as possible about it.

Poem star oops

So will Bespin come back and apologise for perpetuating the false tumblr claims that breaking through the cotton ceiling was coined by GC feminists when in fact it was a trans poem star??? Will they endeavour to correct it when their acquaintances repeat it in future??
(Just like the Marsha / Stonewall lies it’s scary how easily history can be rewritten before your eyes)

I remember reading that phrase years ago and feeling physically ill at the connotations of it.

So what actually happened at Lancaster Pride for those of us not on Twitter?
And oh my god Bespin. Is this the new method of attack for those supporting trans? "I don't have to engage, please respect those who don't want to engage" and "That is exactly what i have the right to do, because i hope a point of view and i do not have to justify that point of view. Im sorry you dont want to accept the concept of free speech."

It is you who do not understand the concept of free speech and how it works within a society. As pp said, you are here and engaging: do so. No one has to respect your feelings as any more important than everyone else's. And your point of view is your point of view and you are entitled to hold it: but you do have to justify it in a society, and others have the right to ask you to do so.

Good god how low we have fallen.

Someone’s posted a Pride picture on my social media that states “do no harm but take no shit.”

Guess that doesn’t apply if you’re lesbians.

Not Lancaster Pride, but here's an account of how a group of lesbians were treated in Edinburgh by Jackie Mearns :

concludes:
"I can’t remember the last time Lesbians were ever front and centre in anything LGBTQI+++ related – can you?

So, the need for Lesbians taking space IN PRIDE is pressing. For we are being erased.

I felt Patrick Harvie’s speech inflamed an already dangerous situation for Lesbians on Pride. It did make me fearful, since immediately after, some people started shouting about getting the ‘TERFs’ out – it was obvious they meant us. We had already been blocked in by some very tall people wearing ‘Trans’ and ‘Non-Binary’ flags draped over their shoulders – quite literally and intentionally making us and our ‘Lesbian Visibility’ banners invisible.

Thanks to the spittle infused rhetoric espoused by Patrick Harvie MSP, our situation went from hostile to dangerous. I thought politicians had some standards in public life to stick to. Certainly, I don’t expect them to inflame the flames and put people (Lesbians) in danger of mob attack.

I was dismayed to find out later that my sisters who joined the march were harassed by marchers behind them, had bells rung and whistles painfully blown in their ears and even had a missile thrown at them in the shape of a juice bottle, that fortunately missed them but unfortunately hit a tourist photographing the parade.

They left the march of their own volition; unwilling to make their selves a target for hate any longer and fearing that the bells and whistles might turn into blows or worse.

It was obvious this would happen. The marchers had been well and truly whipped up into a ‘righteous’ anger by our MSPs and others who spoke from that open-top bus at the pre march rally.

The rally where Lesbians were intentionally blocked-in and made invisible.

Where women were told they were bigots for standing up for Female Rights and expecting our politicians to do the same;

Where it was made crystal clear to us that LESBIANS ARE NOT ONLY NO LONGER WELCOME BUT ARE NO LONGER SAFE AT PRIDE."
womansplaceuk.org/2019/06/23/lesbians-at-edinburgh-pride-a-personal-account/

Blimey, is it the heat? I shall be interested in reading about the Pride event. I'm not at all interested in reading the typical lazy Sunday attempts to goad and effect deletions and bans.

Lesbian = same sex oriented woman.

Your opinion on whether that is true, or kind, or popular, or invalidating of blokes identifying as female = entirely fucking irrelevant.

Bespin

Equality Act 2010 Section 12: Sexual orientation
55.This section defines the protected characteristic of sexual orientation as being a person’s sexual orientation towards:

• people of the same sex as him or her (in other words the person is a gay man or a lesbian)

• people of the opposite sex from him or her (the person is heterosexual)

• people of both sexes (the person is bisexual).

56.It also explains that references to people sharing a sexual orientation mean that they are of the same sexual orientation.

Examples
A man who experiences sexual attraction towards both men and women is “bisexual” in terms of sexual orientation even if he has only had relationships with women.

A man and a woman who are both attracted only to people of the opposite sex from them share a sexual orientation.

A man who is attracted only to other men is a gay man. A woman who is attracted only to other women is a lesbian. So a gay man and a lesbian share a sexual orientation.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/12/notes

HTH.

What time is this happening?

Cursed is playing to an audience of extremely unpleasant people, in the main.

Is that Cursed E article supposed to be satire or something?

I mean, apart from the misogyny and plain ridiculousness of the article, does anyone actually use the term 'literal worst' without irony?

It's funny how no one ever accuses straight (or gay for that matter) men of 'using their sexuality to invalidate trans people'.

.

Agree with PP - seriously off the creepometer, that one. It’s long and waffly but I’m putting it here for posterity - how PP defended the “Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling” conference.

Don’t ever let them say that GC fems made this up or that lesbians are exaggerating.

That article by Cursed E is creepy as fuck.

I've tried to read it before, but I can never get to the end of it, because it turns my stomach.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be critical of our sexual preferences and the beliefs which inform them

There was a lesbian poster on here a while back who berated straight women for not considering why they are straight, which is just as bad as berating lesbians for not considering trans partners.

We need only be critical of our sexual preferences and the beliefs which inform them if our sexual preferences involve any of:
Children
Animals
Non- consenting partners
Activity likely to cause injury or death
Doing it in public before an audience who has not consented to see it.

I didn’t realise that the appalling treatment of lesbians by official LGBT orgs dated back to 2012 (at least in Canada).

That “Cotton Ceiling” workshop was part of a wider conference held to tell “c*s” lesbians how marginalised their trans sisters were, and how much in need of improved “sexual health.”

But it’s okay - that workshop was not condoning coercion of any sort. It merely explained that for “c*s” lesbians to not have sex with TW is transphobic, since TWAW. Phew.

That moment when you have to reference Cursed E to back up your points.

I mean, come on. That is one of the most vilest woman hating men on the fucking planet.

I think some people don't understand that any social pressure at all on people to sleep with people they don't want to is coercion in and of itself. Applied to a marginalised group like lesbians in the context of social shaming and peer group pressure its even worse.

Therefore the whole concept of the cotton ceiling, which is a transactivist one, is deeply coercive.

This.

Morgan M Page - Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Trans Women.

This has just been mentioned by R0wentrees on another thread - so I'm just reproducing it here, as it has become relevant on this thread.

A detransitioned FTM has spoken at length about their experiences with Morgan M Page:

'My Trans Youth Group Experience with Morgan Page'
(extract)
"Most of the time, the Trans Youth Group attendees were majority MTFs and “nonbinary” (NB) males. There was an upper age limit (somewhere between 21-25) but it was a pretty small group, usually fewer than 10 people; so when people aged out they just stuck around. I guess others learned that the age limit wasn’t being enforced because more and more older (30-40 year old) MTFs started to join.

I remember one day, there were three MTFs over 40 who were hitting on the teen FTMs, very explicitly. It was obviously making us uncomfortable, but almost no one ever said anything, only changed the topic or tried to engage them in a conversation away from us. The only time I remember them being asked to leave was when Morgan was a way and the group was led by an FTM substitute.

It was very common for the group to discuss the logistics of sex before and after SRS, kinky sex, and erotic fanfiction. I remember Morgan asking the three teens in the room, including me, if we were comfortable talking about this, but obviously we weren’t going to say no now that the conversation had already been started by these older people. I know of at least three FTMs who entered into relationships with older MTFs while in this group, all of which seemed very unhealthy to me. To me, FTMs under 18 dating or sleeping with (usually kinky) MTFs over 20 seemed very sexually exploitative. Healthy boundaries between adults and minors were foreign to this group, much like in the greater queer and trans community."

I think some people don't understand that any social pressure at all on people to sleep with people they don't want to is coercion in and of itself. Applied to a marginalised group like lesbians in the context of social shaming and peer group pressure its even worse.

Therefore the whole concept of the cotton ceiling, which is a transactivist one, is deeply coercive.

The term 'cotton ceiling' was invented by a trans porn star. It's all about how lesbians can be persuaded to have sex with transwomen. The cotton refers to underwear.

Just to save others the trouble of reading the link:

It’s literally just a name for the concept of using your sexuality as a way of denying trans women’s womanhood; ie “I would never have sex with a trans woman, I’m a lesbian and don’t like men”.

Well, yes, precisely. That is indeed the whole fucking point. Lesbians are same sex attracted, and you know what, in 2019, I thought we'd got to the point as a society where we were all fine with that. But apparently not.

In one sense, however, it's correct as an analysis. This is one of these instances where the personal is the political. Sexual preferences are the point at which even a lot of otherwise woke people can't keep up the pretence anymore (hence the phrase used of lefty dude bros who don't see transwomen or trnasmen as "relationship material" - "inclusionary in the tweets, exclusionary between the sheets.")

However, it's not that the denial of sex is done for the sole reason that people want to use it to argue TW aren't W. Rather, it's because in their heart of hearts 90% (or whatever that Penis News commissioned survey revealed was the case) of people don't think that TWAW, and most people's sexuality, whether gay or straight, is about genitals (not in a reductive way, but as a necessary but not sufficient condition for dating people).

medium.com/@notCursedE/the-cotton-ceiling-dd4eda2aed46

the idea of the cotton ceiling was not created by us, its a term that was used by GC people and was perpetuated by them

This is from 2012, Bespin.

<a class="break-all" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20120722002609/pleasureandpossibilities.com:80/programming/workshop-descriptions" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20120722002609/pleasureandpossibilities.com:80/programming/workshop-descriptions