"Would you date a trans person?" Mostly, no. So you're basically killing them.

How on earth can anyone tell people who they "should" be forming a relationship with?

If your white friend told you they would never consider dating a black person would you think less of them? Yes. Does that person have an absolute right not to date black people? Yes.

As a child of the eighties I loved guys who wore make-up, big hair, high heels etc, whether they were Goths or David Bowie. But... if any of them had insisted he was actually a woman, that would have been an absolute turn-off for me. Even if the person himself was really attractive, the mixed signals would have been too confusing.

@unboxaLoeweHammock also being a straight woman who definitely never shags lesbians helps I think...as why would any self-respecting "transbian" be interested in me?

Just as an aside........i’m watching an old TOTP on BBC4, playing now...Lola...which was a bit ahead of it’s time really!

One of the things that turn me on is a man being relaxed and comfortable in his own skin. A functioning penis is a must. Plus I think gender ideology is bollocks. It would be like getting into a relationship with a religious fundamentalist. So I can't imagine dating a trans person, male or female.

I compare transition to having a full face tattoo. Do it if you really want to, but be aware that it will dramatically reduce your dating pool. That this is not being spelled out to young people seems downright cruel. I remember seeing an interview with Jazz Jennings about dating in which it was painfully obvious no one had been honest with the poor kid.

Craic!

Thank you Craig. I am taking my place in the alphabet soup I am henceforth U for unrealistic (+)

Well, that's not emotionally manipulative and controlling at all is it?

... or, like, literally abusive?

I have a friend who, as a verybyoung woman, dated a (very bog-standard XY no gender issues involved) kind of bloke wirh roughly this attitude. Unsurprisingly, a restraining order eventually played a part in the story.

Again, prejudice doesn't matter in this one, particular regard. Dating and sex are by definition a matter of individual preference and not subject to ideals of fairness etc.

So, sue me, dark haired blokes of planet earth - I've never dated one of you!

@chiararimini, I know what you mean. I'm 49 and invisible I suppose. Or am I being killed by all the men with their own hair, teeth, waistlines who only notice younger women/

"Date us or we'll harm/kill ourselves."

Well, that's not emotionally manipulative and controlling at all is it?

@PenguindreamsofDraco your sacrifice is so stunning and brave x

I too would like it on record that I am willing to take one for the team for when Jason Momoa abandons his disgustingly phobic refusal to date middle aged white women.

So we have to have sex with a trans person because otherwise it's transphobic?
Glad to be an invisible middle aged woman.

Sounds a lot like like the Incel lot.

So, this is my red line in a nutshell.

Despite being gender-critical and, from a TRA perspective, arguably an evil TERF witch, I actually have a lot of patience and empathy for people's sense of self and of personal identity. I actually get that you might have been born with a male body but, for whichever reason, may feel you're really more of a woman. Or a not-man. Or anything in between. It makes things horribly complicated in terms of trying to be as fair and kind as possible to people with fundamentally incompatible needs and desires - but it is what it is, and surely the best response is to be pragmatic and do right by as many folks as much of rhe time as humanly possible.

But, no, categorically not when it comes to dating and sex!!!

Much to the chagrin of my radfem mum (and, rationally speaking, my own) I'm strictly heterosexual. More specifically, I really like tall men, fancy broad shoulders and blond hair with blue eyes and a sporty physique and, in practice, have been known to fall head over heels for a short, dark bloke over the spitting image of what I have just described sitting right next to him.

Call it biology. There are people you meet and think "I'd pay my annual salary for the chance to rip your clothes off right here and now" and there are blokes who'll run after you for two years and who are seemingly perfect on paper but there's no spark. Trust me, I'm sort of an accidental expert. I once committed the near fatal mistake of marrying one of the latter and it resulted in both of us being utterly miserable for a decade plus.

Sorry, you get to be as racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, ageist, ableist and any other kind of prejudiced that you can think of as you like when it comes to sex and dating. If a bloke being shorter than me is a deal-breaker for me, then it is. If I don't feel attracted to men not my intellectual equal then I'm not.

There is literally no such thing as a requirement to feel attracted to - never mind actually get physically involved with - anybody else on the grounds of fairness, social justice or anything of the sort. Your preferences might not make you a great person. Mine certainly don't make me one.

But it's incredibly rapey to say anything else. Nobody's entitled to sexual or romantic attraction from others. That's just breathtakingly creepy!!!

This comment from the article just about sums things up.

Maybe they should just date each other and figure it out how it’ll work. They’ve forced us in our workplaces, bathrooms, etc., but they can’t force us TO DATE THEM!

Don't you just date who you fancy?
I wouldn't date a 99 year old or a 19 year old, I wouldn't date a trans, nor an obese person, someone with tattoos
There's nothing wrong with any of them, just not my type.
The world has gone mad.

Why must I date a trans? No. Just no.

I don't think making the 'unnatural' or 'won't advance evolution' argument is a good idea here- I absolutely agree that people have the right to choose who they do and don't want to date and define their own preferences, but the 'unnatural' argument hits a little close to home for me as a lesbian. The fact that gay relationships inherently won't end in reproduction has been a historically significant part of our discrimation.

No one seems to care much though about people who don't get much sex because they are ugly.

That's the crossover with incel thinking. That philosophy has a great deal of anger regarding women making choices about sexual partners and excluding men for reasons of their declining to wash or their misogynistic behaviour for example. Entitlement to sex and the need for compulsion, (discussions around government compulsion) on uppity women to provide it is writ large.

eek! I may get deleted for that. Even though it's true.

I demand that Jason Momoa date me. I don't care that I'm probably not his type, he's a bigot if he doesn't fancy me. Is this how it works?

Don’t most people through their romantic /dating history reject more people from their dating pool than they would consider just because of .....reasons

I was going to post who the mass exclusions from my potential dating pool would be and it made me sound horrible. Basically on purely physical looks white, Northern European men. And then men who have no or very weak religious beliefs , whose politics are moderate centre left or centre right and in my social class. And anyone who prefers sport over the arts need not bother applying either.

As for dealing with another person's vagina- sorry but yuk.

OMG the comments there. That is what actual transphobia looks like.

And it's still not killing anyone!