"Would you date a trans person?" Mostly, no. So you're basically killing them.

It's never going happen. At the end of the day people get together with eye on procreating. It's not possible the natural way with transgenders. Acceptance in society is one thing but it being the normal in relationships is another thing.

I’m straight. Trans men aren’t men they’re women who’ve taken a shit tonne of testosterone and have developed some Male characteristics as a result. They’re still women though and I’m straight

It’s rape culture pressuring people to have sex with someone they don’t want to

I don't remember when the L&G in LGBT mattered, that straight people were told we had to have same sex relationships lest it make us lesbophobic/homophobic and the L&G people sad.

Funny how trans, which seems so much about breaking down women's boundaries, also demands that we break down our sexual boundaries in order to keep them happy. It's all about their feelings, everybody else is an audience or a prop.

"My husband thinks it oddly amusing that I bury my nose in his armpit when we're cuddled up in bed."

@powershowerforanhour

I've done this too with my ex partner but he thought it was weird not amusing :) Couldn't get enough of his armpit smell. Lol. Totally agree with everything you said about smell.

No I would not date a trans person - so many reasons:

1. I'm not attracted to men pretending to be women. I like manly looking men and the way men smell and sound.

1. Their issues with their identity - too big to take on

1. I like penises.

1. I also find it disturbing that some of them are so feminised, they're more stereotypically feminine than barbie

1. Some trans men (mainly TRAs) are misogynists

Could go on. Sorry.

The flipping irony re the article:

As a straight woman, I find men who dress and present outside gender norms very attractive. Think Bowie rather than P Bunce :)

I am 100% down with breaking gender norms of presentation. Go for it!

It's the denial of reality that is soooo unattractive. I don't want anything to do with a male who insists that presenting in a gender non-conforming manner makes him a woman. Because that shit is exhausting.

LetsSplashMummy

*I can see another angle, a less guilt tripping rape-y one. People having physical surgery to treat a social issue, need to give proper informed consent which covers both the physical and the social. You will need drugs, you will be infertile, you will have a much smaller dating pool, you will be unlikely to pass... do you still agree. honesty needs to be a part of this, not the idea that society will "catch up with the progressive and superior way you see the world."

If vulnerable people are being lied to, told they will be actual men/women, that we can just stick a uterus in, that they will be glamorous and attractive - that is wrong and really sad for them.*

I can tell you now, at least where I live, no-one is tellling teens and young people these things straight up. Except for me, but I am TERF- mummy. You can bet your bottom dollar I told my kid that transtioning would radically reduce the pool of people available to him to get to know, date, be in a relationship with...and that's not due to prejudice. I told him that the vast majority of people would be a hard no, some men would be chasers, and other than that, there would be a tiny % of others who would consider him. But is his psychiatrist telling him this stuff ?

Oh no. No no no. Only mum gets the fun job of talking to her son about how taking hormones and having surgery on his testicles and penis will make his infertile, unhealthy over the long term, and unattractive as a partner to most other people.

I follow a lesbian on social media (a hobby connection) and she has some out VERY pro-trans.
However she is in a relationship with a biological woman. I would love to ask how she feels about a female penis. I get the feeling she wouldn’t go down this route

If you are heterosexual there is also the procreation aspect. OK you may date a bloke who turns out to be infertile, but that is different to choosing to date someone who is infertile from the start because they are also female.
If you are lesbian you know that will happen, if hetero why date a transman when there are plenty of men?

I wonder how many trans people the author has dated?

That bastard Aidan Turner is killing me
So selfish

I'd never date a sexist.

Belief that the categories of "man" and "woman" are inextricably linked to personalities or feelings is sexist.

So nope. Doesn't matter what they look like on the outside. Might be devastatingly attractive but the inside is rotten.

So we have to accept their decisions and preferences but we aren't allowed our own?

The madness never fucking ends does it. I am heterosexual. I like men. I like cock. Women do not have penises. I am not attracted to women. I don't want to have sex with women. Or men who think they are women because, well, I'll get banned if I say what I want to, so just a big no will have to suffice.

Between this twattery, the climate crisis, brexit and boris Johnson, we are going to Hell in a hand basket on a ticket than none of us have purchased.

I'm attracted to typical male characteristics: male jaw, male voice, strong sexy man-hands, arms and shoulders.

If I get close enough, I notice what they smell like. Big time. Not aftershave or soap, but their own body. The men I've been most sexually attracted to have smelt the best to me, and very distinctive. I bet if you gave each of them a plain white T shirt and got them to wear it for a day, then handed me the shirts at the end I could identify the wearers, even 10 or 20 years later. My husband thinks it oddly amusing that I bury my nose in his armpit when we're cuddled up in bed. I think it's supposed to be something to do with immune systems complementing each other giving the best chance of children with good all round immune systems. So what smells sexy to me might not to another straight woman. Can you trans somebody's pheromones, do you think? (Or smell if not technically pheromones).

Or no penis at all

The idea of this bothers me. As does that of a "penis" made of forearm. The notion is horribly unsexy.

And I'm truly sorry if this is hurtful to anyone. I don't mean for it to be.

But, as DuMondeB points out, I guess I'm ultimately just a heterosexual, female mammal. All politics and feminist ideology aside.

I like kissing men and snuggling up to them and coming to realise that they've got one massive erection. It's silly, but I suspect I'm wired for it in a way that goes beyond my rational self. I'd be disappointed at a partner having to push the button for it to happen. And, stupid as I realise this is, I'd feel as though I'd somehow failed as a sexual partner if he didn't respond that way.

And, yes, I realise I'm outing myself as someone who's never had a sexual partner with ED. I have friends who have and have done my best to empathise and realised in the process that, yes, I'd be secretly disappointed.

I'm probably kind of a horrible individual for this but, to me, sex has ideally got to be somewhat primal. It's an individual preference. But then again, I think I get to have these when the other party literally gets to invade my physical body. Better make it worth my time!

Whoops wrong thread

A timely review in THES:
Susan Matthews is unimpressed by an attempt to rethink our understanding of biological sex, gender and identity
www.timeshighereducation.com/books/gender-fluid-primer-21st-century-sally-hines-Thames-and-Hudson?fbclid=IwAR1noNM0Rqb6cpdOOYEIO4UNo6xztdlaHAsJX9vklVNupSBS6USZdXttrhg

I was thinking about this earlier today, wondering if trans people are having any proper counselling before deciding to trans, and being advised about all the hurt feelings and lack of sex that are awaiting.

I knew someone who followed the traditional method of sex change several years ago. They had to live a year dressing as a woman etc.
However after the operation it seemed to be a total and utter shock to her that young heterosexual men were not gagging to shag her. I think the whole thing was a massive disappointment. They literally thought a vagina meant men would want to shag her.
Unfortunately we were not close enough to point out regardless of their change they were still fat, middle aged and bald, not the usual choice for young males, even with a vagina.

There is nothing I could do to make myself sexually attracted to any transperson. They are simply never going to have the type of body that I want.
There are lots of people who I would reject sexually because they don't fit my sexual desires.

feelingverylazy I can't believe that idea works with anyone who has ever been in a relationship. Drunken (very) or chemically fuelled one night stand? Maybe. But never in any other situation.

Unless it's your first time. I suppose there's that.

No. I like slightly feminine looking men, but that is far as I would go. I would never want to sleep with a woman or someone who was a man and is now a woman; it all seems too weird.

Or no penis at all Queen.

Re: the therapy thing it would presumably be a lot easier for them if somebody sat them down and explained that the vast majority of people are attracted to opposite sex, a good number are attracted to the same sex and some are attracted to both. All of them will have sexual things they like best (and least) about opposite or same sex. Things which affect sexual attraction. Doing a mash up just confuses people and in a ruthless high stakes situation, confusion is definitely enough to put you off the list.

There are some people who love the confusion though. Find them and stop telling everybody else off for following their own instincts. If you don't find them attractive, suck it up, and let it be a learning experience. Then you might get where most other people are coming from.

All of which has just been explained in a much better, clearer and more succinct way by DuMonde 😄

Throughout history, have lesbians of the female sex ever pressured straight women of the female sex into sleeping with them, using emotional blackmail and terms like "exclusionary" etc telling straight women that they just need to get over their genital hang ups etc?