transgender hate crime

It would be interesting to see the breakdown between types of crimes, proportion prosecuted/convicted, demographical changes, number of reports per individual etc. I also wonder wether it’s concerning (because crimes have gone up) or a good thing (because crimeshave not gone up but people are more comfortable reporting).

The unfortunate truth is that the current debate might indeed increase negativity towards the trans community.

But a logical person might wonder whether

1. the negativity is wholly ingrained and merely revealed by visibility

OR

2. the demands being made by some trans activists are so unreasonable that the woman in the street immediately reacts with justifiable anger, which is immediately condemned as transphobia

Of course, both these might come into play. But any community perniciously demanding special rights over and above those everyone else has will always make themselves unpopular.

A "Hate Crime" is a statutory crime where there is an aggravating factor of discriminatory hatred.

A "Hate Incident" is anything, literally anything, literally anyone might say they take offence at, report, and is recorded as such by the police.

The BBC report speaks of "Hate crime incidents" which is clear as mud.

I have the total rage too.

If they took out the crimes reported by a lawyer and a very incompetent IT Manager the numbers would look very different.

Also to quote transphobia is everywhere is just inaccurate and meaningless as we know because transphobia includes stating biological facts and definitions in the dictionary.

And says that transgender people have it harder than most - sweeping statement that doesnt reflect the very different circumstances of transgender people where some wield comsiderable power. Others spend their time oppressing other trans people with different views on sex and gender. It totally ignores as usual the oppression and vulnerability and misogyny directed towards women. I would say women as a sex class are a much more vulnerable group.

Just shows the crap biased so called journalism of the BBC. They are a disgrace

Are they including women in their ‘heart of the debate’ and among those in fear, do you reckon?

I do fear. Somewhat for myself (as I can’t see men as women and thus am permanently guilty of hate think, I suppose), more so for women and girls deprived of all-female facilities, greatly worried for the teenage girls demanding radical body changes.

^^ I meant to also explicitly include sexual orientation in that list of examples of characteristics above eg same-sex attraction.

I was coming on to post about this. Goes without saying: Nobody should face threats or violence for being who they are or wearing what they want.

That goes equally for trans people and for women and anyone else.(and we know that 2 or 3 women are killed a week in the UK from sex-based abuse and murder so half the population, women, already very clearly DO know how horrible it is living with the fear of abuse and assault and what that feels like). Many many threads are on here where we talk about how instinctive it is to modify our behaviour to avoid verbal abuse, attack, rape and worse.

So I feel solidarity with anyone facing intimidation or who has been verbally or physically threatened or attacked, male or female.

But I would also like to see a breakdown of what type of incident these statistics refer to. We can see from women and men being visited by the police to talk about what they have said or asked in public, that the bar seems to be being lowered for what merits police attention on behalf of trans people or trans individuals.

We have also seen that some intimidation from TRAs (like at the Bristol Jam jar event in 2018 where women were trapped on a staircase by masked TRAs and verbally abused) gets no police attention at all.
(Many MN threads on this but here’s one: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3228462-To-be-shocked-that-this-is-happening-in-Britain-in-2018)

Lesbians also get kicked out of public events by police just by being there as a peaceful ticket holder like everyone else not even having said a word to anyone

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3539529-Lesbians-removed-from-Accenture-inclusive-trans-event-by-7-police-officers

Though it’s good to see police involvement with the Person who went for Julie Bindel in Edinburgh just recently and also in the punching to the ground at Speakers’ corner of Maria McLachlan. This did get to court and the person was found guilty. But then the judge made her use female pronouns for describing her not biologically female attacker.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3223856-Court-and-enforced-use-of-preferred-pronouns

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3225577-Men-making-victims-use-female-pronouns-in-court-petition

Sorry to go on.. I also think it’s interesting that the BBC’s new LGBT reporter’s report specific to this charity’s work calls Stonewall an ‘equal rights charity’. Presumably Stonewall approved that since this is their story that the BBC is reporting on?

Firstly what rights do trans people lack that others have?

Secondly is being an ‘equal rights charity’ a new direction for Stonewall? Are Stonewall saying that we don’t need descriptions of basic facts about humans any more... like sex or sexual orientation? Are they saying since it’s all fluid and self-described, that everything is anecdotal now even official statistics, and Stonewall just want equal rights for everyone?

That looks like taking away the right of LGB people to campaign for their own interests by the same megacharity that claims to represent their interests and publicly fundraises on that exact basis?

What other equal rights causes will Stonewall be taking on now?

Where does this approach leave people who can’t identify out of the characteristics that are used to oppress them- like sex, race, age, pregnancy etc?

Ruth Hunt, their Chief Executive hasn’t left Stonewall yet AFAIK and so this would be an interesting time for the charity to be setting a new course (unless Stonewall have dropped the LGB for a while and I had missed that..?)

It's rubbish. All part of the TRA narrative to create victim hood, get more funding for 'education programmes and get laws passed to silence any opposition. Wish they'd take actual crime seriously.

basically what I'm trying to say is, if you take a list of say all the phone calls to the police, and you separate each phone call into a category. they count the number that falls into each category.

This is not information on actual crime or incidents statistics.

I did notice that even on the BBC they said that the increase was due to more confidence in reporting incidents and changes in the way police record crimes. Not necessarily an increase in incidents then.

www.facebook.com/Eleanor.Seonaid.Matthews/posts/10217859858273951

Please log it by reporting on the Police Scotland online hate crime form (you can say you don't need them to contact you back). We need the stats

James Morton of Scottish Trans Alliance. Jus' sayin'.

Nice neutral analysis at the end there

'Transgender people have their existence debated on a near daily basis across UK media, and several activists believe this negative attention reinforces the poor treatment they receive on our streets.

Whilst the gender debate rages on, many of those at the heart of it will have to continue living in fear"

Manclife
somewhere on here it was confirmed that all reports that are 'reported' as a hate crime (whether they turned out to be or not) are logged as a 'report of hate crime'.

I wish my memory was good enough to remember which thread it was on.

There’s is a difference between a hate crime and a hate incident. For it to be a hate ‘crime’ there has to be an actual criminal offence such as assault, robbery etc.

Hate incident involves no crimes at all, so using the wrong pronoun would be a hate ‘incident’ unless there was much more to it.

After having witnessed so much hyperbole and self dramatisation I have no confidence that these stats represent what most people would consider any sort of crime.

It's the boy who cried wolf phenomenon.

West Yorkshire Police and South Yorkshire Police saw reporting of transgender hate crimes more than treble over three years.

So three years ago there could have been just one hate crime and this year three hate crimes?

We really need the actual figures to make any sense but it sounds like the link ain't worth clicking.

BBC, eh?

I was just about to start a thread on this. It's given me the rage over my tea and toast. As a woman who reported over a decade of domestic abuse and had nothing done about it by GMP I don't feel much sympathy for anyone who has been the "victim" of people refusing to have science turned on its head and agree they can change sex.

[pupils and teachers] I meant

I wonder how much of that statistic has been contributed solely by the fake lawyer.

Hurt feelz/thought crime. It’s utterly pathetic when there is so much actual crime

‘West Yorkshire Police and South Yorkshire Police saw reporting of transgender hate crimes more than treble over three years.’

They record the retweeting of limericks as hate crimes. Is every image of every porn site recorded as a hate crime against women? I genuinely do care if trans people are being abused or attacked, but these figures mean next to nothing. Which is why what's going on at the moment is no good for anyone, including trans people.

I’m not surprised given that misgendering is considered a hate crime. I highly doubt the statistic represents actual hate crimes, as they were originally defined.

It was said a while ago, that this is what would happen. these are cases of 'reported' hate crime. You only have to report anything and say its because you are transgender it is recorded, even if it's spurious and the police say it's not a crime, It is still recorded as a report of hate crime.

It's why the TRA are encouraging a reporting every single little thing they can Because the report gets put in and used in larger statistics. Then organisations see a 'problem' or a rise in it, and someone then thinks there needs something done about it like more funding better training more awareness programs ect.

The BBC are doing exactly what was predicted.

They should rename it thought crime

Or perhaps existence crime.

Since everything about us is so triggering and offensive. Why they wanna be something they hate so bloody much I dont know