transgender hate crime

Good point, TigerCubScout

Can you imagine if I called the police about either issue (we aren't even going into the stuff yelled at me from moving cars) what would the police even say to me? Probably avoid the pub. It wouldn't go down as a hate incident cos I'm just a bloody woman. Inconvenient eh. Maybe I should identify as a trans woman then they might do shit
You may be genderfree - which means you are transgender according to Stonewall definitions.
You are being targeted because your 'gender expression' agrees with your 'gender assigned at birth'. If your gender expression was more masculine and you looked and acted more man-like you would not have been abused in this way. Therefore a transgender identity hate incident.

Jeez. I see from those tweets there's a new abusive name to call women who dare to point out the Emperor is stark bollock naked. I swear it's like trying to have this debate in a toddler group. Rage, flying biscuits, tears and screams of poo poo head abound.

I also wonder how many women have reported repeated abuse and been classed as vulnerable by police? How many women have been assaulted and had abuse screamed at them by random men?
Virtually every single woman I know. And yet we can't report those incidents because abusing women simply for being a woman is not a hate crime
This is actually annoying the shit out of me now. This year, despite me being old and generally invisible I have been groped three times, and have altered my whole fucking life to avoid a pub at certain times so I dont get yelled at. I tried ignoring and that didnt work so now I avoid going anywhere near it after probably a hundred incidents last year.
Can you imagine if I called the police about either issue (we aren't even going into the stuff yelled at me from moving cars) what would the police even say to me? Probably avoid the pub. It wouldn't go down as a hate incident cos I'm just a bloody woman. Inconvenient eh. Maybe I should identify as a trans woman then they might do shit

Quite.

If TWAW crimes against them should be minimised, ignored, dropped by CPS and generally not taken seriously. It's almost like there's a difference between women and TW.

And an actually oppressed group, as opposed to a group with a lot of oppression corporate branding, doesn't get taken seriously by or represented properly in law. Crimes against them are seen as kind of ok, if not justifiable/deserved in some cases, because they're not a group valued or cared about and seen as lesser beings.

So that would be women then.

If transwomen ARE women, shouldn't crimes against them be reported as crimes against women, just as crimes perpetrated by them?

Wasn't it just last week that a certain Labour figure defined someone rejecting their sexual advances as a hate crime?

And as well as a break down of what the actual crimes are, I'd also like a breakdown of how many were multiple reports made by the same individual.

You also have to factor in the massive increase in the number of people identifying as transgender. If ‘transphobic’ hate crimes have gone up 81% while the number of girls referred to Tavistock in the last few years has gone up 2,000% (and who knows what it is for boys) then the proportion of trans people being subject to transphobia, however loosely you define it, has gone down.

I'm afraid I take this about as seriously as I take the endlessly wheeled out 'suicide stats' that have been repeatedly debunked.

Most of this will be being shouted at in the street (women everywhere deal with this daily and don't get any sympathy or recourse, you wanted into womanhood, suck it up buttercup) and the petty stuff like 'misgendering' and 'dead naming' and 'posting on MN' and 'writing articles that hurt my feelings'. If a trans person was removed from sitting peacefully on a chair, or punched for standing at speaker's corner in possession of opinions, or actually assaulted on the bus like those poor lesbian couples, it would be front page news and the TRAs would go to town on it.

The law is ridiculous and this paying people to rush around gathering meaningless information to care more about this group than any other group in society who would never get half the public attention, just makes a public figure of fun of the police. Not to mention trains the general public to take trans people less and less seriously. You'd think they'd be concerned about that bit.

God that BBC 'analysis' really is just embarrassing.

I heard this on Radio 1 today and there was someone from WYP talking about we have to tackle 'words' because they are the root cause of the violence (mostly perpetrated by men or women I wonder?) It sounded like an excuse to say 'yes, we are allowed to say that women tweeting that women don't have penises is a hate crime, because that then leads to men beating up transwomen on their doorstep'.

I would wager that the vast majority of this 'hate crime' increase is people saying things that transpeople do not want to hear (eg. Woman = adult human female etc) rather than actual physical violent attacks, but there doesn't seem to be breakdown of stats anywhere so.....

This interpretation of that being "hate crime" was confirmed by the Scottish Trans Alliance. See R0's screenshot

Times January 2019
'Principal backs transgender students over ‘hurtful’ stickers'

(extract)
"Professor Peter Mathieson has angered feminist campaigners after assuring students that he would not tolerate “offensive stickers” that have appeared on university grounds since last summer. Some of them are understood to say “Female is a biological reality” and “Woman. Noun. Adult human female”.

He promised that those responsible for the stickers would be traced through CCTV and disciplined. Police Scotland had also been contacted, he said.

In a letter to students, he wrote: “The university has a zero-tolerance stance towards harassment, bullying, discrimination and victimisation of any kind — this includes zero tolerance towards transphobia. All members of the university community including trans and non-binary people are protected under the dignity and respect policy. It is never acceptable for any member of the university to be harassed.”

"A spokeswoman for Women and Girls in Scotland, which campaigns for women’s equality and against transgender women having access to women-only spaces, was outraged that the dictionary definition of a woman had seemingly been interpreted as hate speech. “We consider any notion that female people should not be able to define ourselves in public as itself a form of oppression, and an impediment to addressing the sexism and misogyny [faced] because we are female,” she said.

She claimed that transgender activists encouraged people to report individual stickers as hate crimes to maximise the number of alleged offences. On Facebook last November, James Morton, the Scottish Trans Alliance (STA) manager, responding to a comment on the Edinburgh stickers, said: “Please log it by reporting on the Police Scotland online hate crime form. We need the stats.” Vic Valentine, a policy officer for STA, said: “If people feel distressed by transphobic stickers, we encourage them to report [it] to police. We want to improve trans people’s confidence in approaching the police.”

Kai O’Doherty, the Edinburgh University Students’ Association’s vice-president for welfare, said the stickers were “not only hurtful to trans people, but are clear violations of policies against harassment and discrimination”. (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/principal-backs-transgender-students-over-hurtful-stickers-9jpztg2tz

I have actually gone and done one spreadsheet on this based on this data from West Yorkshire police. www.westyorkshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/foi/2019-06/foi_0286-19_hate_crimes_june_2019.pdf . They have a column called “Transphobic hate crime” which the text below refers to as “gender identity”. They state that increases in hate crime are because of the police recording more. “Disability” hate crime is up 200% to 792 incidents recorded. And “transphobic” is up 207% to 169. The largest category is “Race”. Also up, to far, far more, 5,926 “Race” incidents. My spreadsheet is for years to 31 December so slightly different, but still....

I’ve never seen ‘the existence of transgender people debated’.

Can someone point me to a post or a blog or a video or some placard waving nutter who ‘debates’ the ‘existence’ transgender people?

Nobody ‘debates’ their existence.

Is it a case of more people reporting incidents like this or are adult human female stickers a hate crime?

This interpretation of that being "hate crime" was confirmed by the Scottish Trans Alliance. See R0's screenshot.

The trouble with all this 'hate crime' stuff is that - as Harry Miller of Fair Cop found out - that anyone can reported a 'hate crime', and even if it completely baseless, without any evidence, and motivated by a grudge or ideological differences, it still has to be recorded as a 'hate crime incident' - •even if there is no evidence for this, the 'victim' is batshit crazy, and no action is taken by the police.

It seems like this is kind of inherent problem in the way that hate crimes are looked at. Or maybe even in the idea of hate crimes? I remember when different sorts of legislation around hate crimes was being passed in different countries there were people who argued it would be a difficult sort of law to manage.

It's great seeing Sue being brave and stunning in the face of adversity.......

Quotation from the BBC article linked in the OP: "Transgender people have their existence debated on a near daily basis across UK media, and several activists believe this negative attention reinforces the poor treatment they receive on our streets. "

Several activists believe. How widespread or niche is their opinion?

How many activists don't believe this?

How many of the 650,000 transgender people in the UK believe this?

‘Hate crime’ needs scrapping, or at least limited to refer to things that would actually be criminal whether or not ‘hate’ was the motivation.

Again we need to know what counts as a hate crime.

My Dd has been verbally abused in the street more than once for being a lesbian, never reported but it would be a hate crime (and rightly so)

Is it a case of more people reporting incidents like this or are adult human female stickers a hate crime?

What are the increases in other groups in the same time period? There is a huge push to report hate crimes, I know I saw statistics of disability hate crime increasing too.

Cynical me thinks that there are a number of TRA's reporting anything and everything as hate crime. Misgendering, those saying women and lesbians are adult human females etc etc purposely to bump up the stats for the sympathy vote.....

James Morton Scottish Trans Alliance wanted stickers reporting as hate crimes ("for the numbers")

I'm am still fizzing that the horrible story about the housing officer was the only actual example given, implying that the rest of the reports were of a similar nature.

Yes.

Cynical me thinks that there are a number of TRA's reporting anything and everything as hate crime. Misgendering, those saying women and lesbians are adult human females etc etc purposely to bump up the stats for the sympathy vote.....

See the post from LangCleg upthread.

It’s already being twisted by activists on Twitter. An increase in reports of hate crimes has turned into an increase in violence.

And it’s all the fault of people on Twitter.