Ben Elton's Identity Crisis

I love upstart crow too. It’s brilliant and on the money in so many ways.

The whole issue about women not being able to act, the running joke about ‘where would you put the melons?’ And the whole idea that they are so certain that a woman can’t play a woman on stage convincingly and never question their assumptions on gender - or class or politics etc for that matter. That’s what his comedy is built upon - holding a massive mirror up.

I can’t read the fiction though - as someone said it’s a bit clunky. He’s so clever with language but it’s much better interpreted by actors - makes the ideas less didactic and more nuanced.

TheOnly maybe Oblomov may well have posted that comment on the wrong thread.

I LOVE him and his books. I’ll need to buy this

Maybe I’m being over-sensitive, the Navratilova doc last night and a particularly upsetting sex gone wrong murder I read about this morning have got to me, sorry.

TheOnly yes, she is, and I loved the book when that was as far as I’d got, but as it I felt it was portraying the woke characters more positively. Look at the difference between the two junior detectives, for example. And the way that all of the Rainbow Islanders, including the lesbian woman and the two with DSDs, were woke and happy together except for the two stupid straight people. And of the two “feminist” women, one was an OTT lunatic, and the Greer-a-like was clearly intended to be very unlikeable.

Yup - got this as an audio book (narrated by BE) a couple of months ago and loved it!

I got a copy of Stark signed by the man himself when it first came out in the eighties. He was at a bookshop in Birmingham and a really nice decent person. Time after Time is a cracking book which is the last one I read of his.

Hmm I'm only about half way through so do not know how the story will pan out but so far I've found his poking fun at identity politics taken to the extreme pretty spot on, and everyone is a target...

I'm really sorry but I'm really narked.
what 'exactly' are you saying OP?
nothing is clear about this. what exactly has been said?

I'm completely confused about what the issue is here. and I'm really cross. what are you actually saying op?

and what is he saying?

does anyone have any clear links? because everything that's been linked to so far is completely non-descript and confusing and vague and is this is really irritating.

The GC characters are either thick or naive, out of touch and easily manipulated. The Woke are intelligent, interesting and not actually involved in online death threats at all, that was just fake news.

Whaaaat??

That's the opposite from reality.

I haven't read this one but Blind Faith is interesting. There's a passage where it's noted that in this dystopian future, not having a faith is illegal. The reason is that if you don't have one, you're telling those that do that you think their beliefs are wrong, which is discriminatory and disrespectful. So you have to believe.

There's also a bit where 'I have no evidence but I feel it's true, and you can't tell me that my feelings are wrong' is treated as a valid form of argument (again, highlighting how ridiculous and dystopian said society is). Also a couple of instances of a character trying to tell the common-sense truth and then recanting and going along with absurdities instead, because of fears of social disapproval.

Definitely spookily prescient.

Just finished it. I’m not at all sure he does get it. Or rather, he does, but his position is pretty much sitting back and saying both sides are as bad as each other, it’s all a load of rubbish stirred up online to set people against each other and only idiots fall for it. The GC characters are either thick or naive, out of touch and easily manipulated. The Woke are intelligent, interesting and not actually involved in online death threats at all, that was just fake news.
Basically, and I think he’d be very amused to hear this and think I’d proven his oh so clever point, he’s up there on his middle class straight white male ivory tower in a position to laugh because none of it affects him. Ho ho. I’m really pissed off that I gave him a tenner.

Was listening to it today whilst around town. It genuinely made me laugh out loud a few times, and boy does he get it! Bloody good job he's not on Twitter tbh or he's have been crucified by now...

Love the MN references too!

High Society and Dead Famous are well worth a read. (about legalising drugs and 'Big Brother' style TV.)

Oh, Bertrand - you also want to try Stark, This Other Eden, and Gridlock. HIs best IMO. Although I read them in 90s where did that time go?? Oh yes, I had children

Ben Elton turned my ds into a reader. I don’t think I ‘actually read anything of his-looking forward to giving it a try.

Due to the power of Amazon Prime, I ordered the book 24 hours ago and it's arrived and I've started reading it. I adore it.

(Long term Ben Elton fan).

Sorry can't remember the specifics nickymanchester. Worth a re-watch. I've not seen them all.

Elton often writes the way he performs and he has a bit of a scattergun approach. If you read it in his ‘voice’ his books seem more coherent. I’m tempted by the audiobook as I have a spare Audible credit but not sure I have time to listen at the moment as I want to finish Catch 22 before I start the series.

I've a suggestion for future book club: I saw Lissa Evans on the twitter thread about tampons for 'menstruators' - I'm half way through her brilliant book - Old baggage - do check it out. She also wrote 'their finest hour'