Islamophobia as a tool of the religious right to suppress dissent

Sheila Jeffrey's wrote an excellent feminist critique of Islam in one of her more recent books, can't remember the name of it now.

I was brought up a Roman Catholic and always questioned why our faith was better than others, which led to me becoming atheist at a relatively early age.
I eventually married a woman who was bought up Muslim, though she was never fundamentalist and doesn't go to a mosque. We have been together nearly twenty nine years. Her family are mostly great, lovely people, not strictly religious.
My family on the other hand have not been very welcoming towards my wife, my sister having actively tried to split us up.
From the moment we met, there were some English people who made nasty remarks about my wife, or would ignore her at social gatherings, simply based on the fact of where she was born - Iran.
The rise of the phrase "Islamophobia" definitely has its roots in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the war there and the subsequent terrorist attacks around Europe.
The attacks in the UK were carried out by one particular group of Muslims - Wahhabi Sunni, who were radicalised mostly by Saudi funded preachers/imams, based in Saudi funded mosques and madrassas.
The people who carried out the attacks, were largely from communities which do not integrate into mainstream British life, they do not socialise, drink alcohol (although some males do and also abuse class A drugs), and they would love to see Sharia law implemented in the UK.
After each terror attack, our left wing media tended to deflect blame and concentrated instead on perceived Islamophobic attacks on Muslims, and on the supposed rise in "Right wing" violence.

I suspect that’s true to a lesser extent of Scotland and Wales

The Catholic/Protestant issue is an issue in Glasgow- not on the east coast. My family are Catholic ( probably if I cared to research pre- reformation Catholic rather than Irish Catholic) I describe myself as British.

I can usually guess whether my Northern Irish relatives are from my grandfather’s Protestant side or my grandmother’s Catholic side depending on whether they define themselves as British or Irish. It’s not a question of geography - they may live only streets away from each other - it’s about politics.

I suspect that’s true to a lesser extent of Scotland and Wales.

That's a good point about segregationism, Derval, I hadn't really thought of it that way but I think its true.

Sexualisation of women's bodies, pushing them, others, the fashion industry to treat them as objects, is about a demeaned view of women. Telling women their bodies are dirty so they have to cover them is a demeaned view of women.

They aren't the same, because they are different things, they are absolutely comparable as they have some commonalities, they can both go very wrong or be relatively mild.

But the inability to compare them, to even see how our own means of social oppression operates, is the kind of thing I meant when I said I appreciated the ability of many Muslim women to discuss such things in a measured and rational way.

Sorry , "moderately posh"

Yes, people who describe themselves as British are usually BME/posh/Northern Irish

I describe myself as British. I'm not moderately posh but none of the others. I use "British" as for me it is more nebulous and I do not like having "Scottish" foisted on me.

I’ll stop saying I’m English as well then?

The nub of race/cultural/religious relations lies in whether your answer to the question is one of segregation or integration. I’m not even sure if it even follows traditional right/left divides, although certainly it is more visible on the right. The left as it so often does writes itself a pass or simply sticks it’s head in the sand and is blind to the nuances all in the name of identity politics and virtue signaling.

Consider how effective accusations of racism or islamaphoboa are in shutting down debate. At best people genuinely don’t want to be prejudice or at worst they don’t want to be seen as those things. This is actually a step in the right direction.

A lot of modern liberal or left leaning concepts are segregationist when you scratch beneath the surface, cultural appropriation? Promotes segregation. Affirmative action? Same. We need to call out segregationist policies when they arise as it makes things worse not better.

And I also agree with goosefoot that many secular people have absolutely no idea about religion.

I’m being a bit harsh, because I do respect her for standing up to some appalling treatment she’s received at the hands of progressives.

The article claims to be critiquing identity politics, but it actually is about defending identity politics.

She is annoyed by it defending ‘expressions of muslimness’ which she sees as excluding people who identify as Muslims but don’t do anything particularly seen as Muslim.

That’s classic identity politics. Getting annoyed that somebody having the right to observe Ramadan is protected while someone not observing it isn’t. That is ridiculous. What do you want? A round of applause for not doing something? It’s like the asexual bit of LGBT.

Yes, people who describe themselves as British are usually BME/posh/Northern Irish.

Britishness includes black and brown people. Englishness / Welshness / Scottishness doesn’t. That’s why when you ask a black or brown person born in the UK what nationality they are they will tend to say British.

Britishness excludes brown or black people? Racist much.

The LGB rights movement has the same blind spot. Foucault adored the Revolution.

I think the freedom to not cover your face is inherently good.

I think being beaten, raped or imprisoned for not covering your face is inherently evil.

Screw the false equivalences between the West and the Muslim world.

If we were that fucking oppressive we’d be emigrating, not the other way round.

I agree, until recently not being able to speak out about the ways in which some muslim men control and abuse some muslim women was the last bastion of acceptable misogyny. Now of course we have a renewed Men's Rights Movement in the guise of Trans-Rights (which oddly enough is often very hostile to true transsexuals) so feminists are left battling on all fronts.

I have often had an issue with how progressive people will celebrate things like World Hijab Day as well. While ignoring the subjugation of women in many countries under Islamic rule.

I live in a fairly multicultural area with many surrounding suburbs that have a high Muslim population. I see the good and the bad (as is the case with any race or religion on this planet). I can certainly understand how people get annoyed when criticism of anti social behaviour are shut down with cries of islamophobia. Particularly when those that are shouting it live in places where all they know is that a brand new restaurant with amazing food has opened locally.

I have had to hold my DS1 sobbing uncontrollably in my arms upon learning of (what was an acquaintance whom he’d met twice through another friend) was shot dead point blank in his head at 15. Gang related violence.

I have supported a brave Muslim woman attending court due to domestic violence because her own family would not. She wears a hijab, her daughters do not. She is funny and fierce and my friend.

It does not help anyone. All it allows is young men dying in vain and women to continue to be beaten.

The item of clothing itself is separate from laws saying people have to wear it. There are places where the law says women have to wear a shirt, that doesn't mean shirts are inherently oppressive, or even the custom of wearing them.
The west has a very difficult time seeing that its own way of dealing with women's sexuality is profoundly oppressive, because they base the argument of "freedom" which is see as inherently good, along the queer theory/deconstructionist lines. Unless we have a good sense of how that works it makes us inclined to treat cultures that look at it differently in a hypocritical way.

Any item of clothing you can be punished for not wearing, no matter how trivial, is oppressive. If the hijab wasn’t oppressive it wouldn’t have to be enforced. And men aren’t being forced to wear them. Saying women have to cover up from head to toe to prevent being ‘sexualised’ is blaming the victim.

Absolutely this, AlwaysComingHome.