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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help me peaktrans DH

62 replies

maslinpan · 20/06/2019 08:58

We haven't been able to discuss the many terrifying elements of the trans rights agenda in a constructive way. I am a lifelong feminist, DH is as supportive as they come, has mainly female colleagues who he deeply respects, and he wants DD (14) to do and be whatever she wants.
He had a MTF flatmate years ago who was receiving counselling, waiting for surgery, and was a very private person who just wanted to live their life. I think that is his only model of a trans woman, and he is loyal to that memory - not that they have kept in touch at all, so can't ask them what they think. He is an academic who has some awareness of student politics - rainbow flag waving very proudly at his uni - but I think he feels they have very little influence and relevance to anyone else. I pointed him to FPFW but he found a statistic which he thought was not very reliable, so he is quite dismissive of that source. How can I persuade him that my concerns are real, pressing, and relevant to all girls and women? Twitter threads won't do the trick, I need cold hard facts with lots of evidence. The resource thread It could never happen is great, but what else?

OP posts:
AnotherLass · 20/06/2019 12:24

I'm just curious - you say "he found a statistic [on the FPFW website] which he thought was not very reliable"

Which one? They ought to know

TheInebriati · 20/06/2019 12:23

There is nothing that you can how him that will get him to see the problem, because his problem is he doesn't listen to you.
If you want a women only toilet or changing room than it should be your decision, not his.

I pointed him to FPFW but he found a statistic which he thought was not very reliable, so he is quite dismissive of that source.

he only looks at the Guardian and the BBC

He gets his news and views from specific sources and discounts yours. That isn't a feminist position, it isn't rational, and it isn't academic.
He's actually being pretty nasty about it.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 20/06/2019 12:21

For my dp it was the cotton ceiling. I told him about the Sonia Pouton/ lgbt sandwich interview:

"lesbians don't like penis"
"yeh but how do you represent that with a sandwich?"

Just because it honestly cracked me up. He thought it was funny but said he didn't get it. I said "there's some controversy at the moment over whether lesbians like penis". He said "how is that controversial? Someone with a penis who fancies women is just a straight ma... oh this is a trans thing isn't it. Wtaf?" It was quite entertaining.

He's also a statistician so the idea of data being recorded by feelings as opposed to reality really got under his skin.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/06/2019 12:17

Point out instances where a woman would really want another woman to say: do their smear, council them after a rape, be in the next cubicle to them when they are naked, at the gym/changing rooms, perform a mammogram, wipe their aged bums in a care home, locked in a prison cell with, have sex with...

Now a male bodied person who gets to do this - riding roughshod over the wants or needs woman he is doing it to/with - is what? A woman because he says so. He may say that he feels like a woman - how exactly is this a can it be measured or judges truthful? How do we know he isn’t lying? Even if he does - his willy still works, no? He may say that he is a lesbian - so the technicalities are...?

Why do men get to call the shots and tell women to shut up and accept all this?

MissingLesbianSpaces · 20/06/2019 12:09

Send him the link to Women are Humam

maslinpan · 20/06/2019 12:04

Thanks all. I think because he only looks at the Guardian and the BBC, he isn't coming across the news stories which might get him to question it all. If it's just me getting angry then I am just one voice. If DD did sport that would be such a great starting point but she doesn't, not Guides either. Of course he is free to disagree with me, but the lack of any engagement really upsets me.

OP posts:
NonnyMouse1337 · 20/06/2019 11:04

It takes persistent drip feeding. I understand the desire to dump all the evidence out at once and overload someone by having long conversations about it, but partners can get overwhelmed and bored and switch off. It's one of the reasons why I'm desperate to join a GC group in Edinburgh or meet some GC women to talk to, because my partner was getting a bit tired of me going on and on. He is supportive and respectful of my GC views.... still a bit unsure and on the fence about the trans issues but he's slowly making noises and expressing doubt. We were watching a very conventional and feminine looking woman on the telly rabbiting on about being non-binary and using they/them pronouns and he was totally confused 'wtf there's nothing about her that seems non-binary...' and then we had a good laugh when he exclaimed 'omg you're turning me into a TERF!!'.

Like others have said, focus on the censorship, free speech, intimidation of women and academics, medical professionals resigning from Tavistock over concerns etc. Space out the discussions so it doesn't feel repetitive.
It will slowly start to stick and little questions will pop up in his mind when he reads a story or hears colleagues discussing something. My partner overheard colleagues bad mouthing 'TERFs' recently and since he knows I'm not some raving bigot, he actually started to understand a bit of the reactionary attitudes towards feminists.

MonstranceClock · 20/06/2019 10:53

Can't you leave him to make his own decisions? I wouldn't appreciate someone showing me articles all the time to try and change my view point on something.

Redshoeblueshoe · 20/06/2019 10:51

Does your DD do sports ?

Redshoeblueshoe · 20/06/2019 10:51

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OhHolyJesus · 20/06/2019 10:47

My DH thinks that as trans people make up such a small % of the UK population there is nothing to worry about it terms of power, influence or each so I focus on the education stuff (Stonewall schools and No Outsiders) and also also government porticoes or even politicians who can't say what a woman is.

I also try to discuss TRA violence/male pattern violence, free speech and police and hate crimes but he is easily overwhelmed and won't really discuss any of it with me anymore!

As your DH is in education I would focus on that, has he seen the recent video of that kid being thrown out of class? Some real life examples might be better than statistics if they can be dismissed or undermined.

Yeahnahyeah · 20/06/2019 09:18

Show him this thread - even reading the first couple of pages without opening any of the links gives a good overview.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?pg=18&order=

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