Can someone explain...

Whilst I don't agree with the TRA lobby, I think it's clear that the reason this would annoy them is because it'd be viewed as victim blaming.

I've just realised my spell check has made a joke by changing gender dysphoria to dysphagia.

Gender Dysphasia would be a condition in which you misspeak about gender. Hmm.

Yes, I actually read it as something that a transsexual somewhat sympathetic to women, like Debbie Hayton, might have written.

Good point Any
It makes more sense if read that way.

Also as a parody of appeals to female socialisation.

Yup, I was thinking that too. If it was aimed at women, telling them to be more subservient, it would cause equal amusement and outrage.

Whatever its intent, I can see it misses its mark, especially after seeing the discussion here.

If it was indeed written by a transsexual, I could easily see it as being written in extreme frustration at current events. If you’d transitioned years ago, lived your life quietly and peacefully and not experienced much transphobia or push back, then the TRA and self-ID pushers jumping in to the equation, causing many more people to be angry with trans issues in general, then presumably this might be how you feel. And that would explain the message about how to try to fit in.

As a woman I would kick off big time if I was told that being ‘modest and polite’ was the answer to violence and personal attacks (we’ve been told that for centuries and it’s bloody unacceptable) I understand why a trans person would find this unacceptable too.

My feelings too.

I'm also uncomfortable with the just dress/walk/talk better aspect. For those with gender dysphasia or mental health it's a poor message.

I understand who this is aimed at, and some of the advice is sage, I just don't think the messages about treating women & women's spaces with respect should be conflated with the other stuff.

But I'm thinking of all the times I've joined a group - a new workplace, a band, a choir, a friendship group... you do it slowly and carefully and mindfully

You sit back, you observe the dynamics, you try to 'fit in' in the best way you can

What you don't do is stride in and make demands and shout down people who've been in that group for years

Blaire White said exactly all of this in one of her videos.

Yeah, I dont think it really landed as parody or satire either. Maybe I'm just being a grumpy sod this morning, but it just read as too timid to be satire, and the messages are too mixed for it to be effective in other ways.

I read it as entirely tongue in cheek and aimed squarely at the militant TRAs who shout transphobia solely at women who understand biology, rather than at the people who genuinely are transphobic

Also as a parody of appeals to female socialisation.

That said, this movement is not known for its appreciation of satire and is known for its twisting of meanings, so I expect it to go down like a sack of spuds.

Wizbetisanizbet - do you acknowledge that transphobia (actual transphobia, not gender critical thought etc) exists?

And I agree that acting like a woman is different for every woman, which is what makes telling trans women to "act like women" utterly ridiculous.

NB I totally agree that trans women should be generally respectful, kind, polite etc just as everyone should, regardless of gender or sex.

Sorry, not women in my first paragraph, gender critical women.

Also checked back the poster - there is no message about respecting women’s same sex spaces or right to discussion, it is all about be quieter and more polite and ask us for tips to pass in that way...

Okay, my brief reflection on this - my discomfort comes from the fact that it starts from the premise that what women are doing is ‘hate’ - whereas women are not hating transgender people, they are expressing peacefully and demographically a range of concerns and a wish to protect sex based rights and indeed, also to protect children from lifelong medical intervention until such time as they are old enough to make informed decisions of their own. That is not hate.

Secondly, whilst characterising this position as ‘hate’, it then suggests that transwomen simply have to become more like women and not gather any attention and then there will be less resistance to the entry into women’s same sex spaces.

Then at the bottom, it says listen to us, we have been doing it for years.

Mixed in, there is an acknowledgment that transgender people will never be the opposite sex, but I do not recall (on phone) whether it also says hence, respect women’s rights to same sex space and to organise to protect these.

I read it as entirely tongue in cheek and aimed squarely at the militant TRAs who shout transphobia solely at women who understand biology, rather than at the people who genuinely are transphobic

If that was the intention then it’s misguided. The poster will be circulated on SM and possibly used by press (The Guardian specifically) as an example of victim blaming, TERF nastiness.

BUT it's claiming that this is how you get rid of transphobia. And is totally isn't

I think alot of it totally depends on how you interpret it all. Especially transphobia

No one is responsible for the actions of anyone else. And no one should be being actively nasty to anyone either.

Depends on what the poster really meant about being a victim.

If someone is yelled at or insulted because they are trans theh yes they are a victim obviously.. but luckily for them it would he classed as a hate crime and dealt with. Conveniently sex isnt a basis for a hate crime so people can tell fucking slag out the window at us as much as they like and get away with it.

Most the cases that have been discussed on line though or in the papers though well thats not people saying they were called a its claiming victim hood when sporting a full on beard and cock out in a womens group group change and being asked to leave. That's the kind of victimhood most often claimed so that's how I read it.

Most if us would of course feel that if someone was actively discriminated against and the victim.of an actual hate from.that ot was not their fault at all.

Um, I don't like that. The aim seems to be persuasion. It wouldn't persuade me. Yes, the things it references are not transphobia, and sure, if a lot of TRAs stopped viewing simple disagreements as transphobia it would be better for everyone.

But you don't 'Stop Transphobia' by giving advice that doesn't address actual transphobia.

If the title was different, perhaps "How we can work together to stop transphobia" then maybe it might have landed. But as it is, it just reads as smug.

It's one thing to talk about some of those issues on FWR and other women's spaces. It's another thing to make a specific effort to reach out to trans people by being patronising and smug.

I read it as victim blaming as well, I am afraid. It also hugely misses the point of gender critical arguments because it enforces gender stereotypes, rather than seeks to dismantle them.

Fair enough. I didn't see it as tongue in cheek.

If the poster was about how to win friends and influence people, it's close. (Still wouldn't want to dictate what to wear etc.)

BUT it's claiming that this is how you get rid of transphobia. And is totally isn't.

As a poster to TRA's to say "stop and listen", engage respectfully, don't bully, sure. (Minus what to wear)

So, is it a message to TRA to talk nicely or a message to stop transphobia?

I read it as entirely tongue in cheek and aimed squarely at the militant TRAs who shout transphobia solely at women who understand biology, rather than at the people who genuinely are transphobic

That's exactly how I read it too.

But you are lumping all trans people into this same group. How do you think this poster comes across to a trans person who is not one of the "omg you have a period how tranphobic I am literally female", who is bullies and told they are disgusting for being trans?

I suspect the makers of the poster were quite clear in who they were aiming it at and I suspect that those transpeople who are not of the "OMG..." ill would know it's not aimed at them.

However...

That doesn't make it right. I think the poster is clearly aimed at a very specific demographic of trans person.

And the reality is probably that whilst people are fighting over 'transphobia', actual transphobia isn't getting the attention it deserves.