Caster Semanya statement and transwoman in sport

Greeve what do you not get? Caster could not challenge this unless they had the specific condition listed. What are you not getting? Be very specific.

The specifics of her (or anybody's) body is irrelevant, The fact that she has XY chromosomes and is androgen sensitive is all that matters and has clearly been defined by the IAAF. Androgen sensitive in someone with XY chromosomes means that her body produces testosterone and DHT and responds to it i.e received the virilizing effect of testosterone/DHT at or around puberty which can only be received by somone with testosterone-producing testes tissues. And her published testosterone levels as an adult show that this is still the case. Plus she would be able to compete under the IAAF ruling if it wasn't - or if she lowered them to an amount which is still much higher that that of XX women.

You could argue that her DSD might mean she doesn't produce quite as much testosterone as an XY male without a DSD - but it is still way, way more than that of any XX woman, even the most "genetic outlier"

I'm not sure that I feel that sorry for CS anymore. She has made a comfortable life for herself (and her coaches, her advisors, her family, her village) from the racing she has done for the last 10 years. It is clear that it was a deliberate strategy to put her in female races despite the fact that her advisors, at least, knew she had a DSD (understandable as a way out of poverty, but hardly fair to the individual or other compatitors). Even as it stands today, she still has a lot of earning potential (autobiographies, sports commentator, TV personality, coaching and mentoring, charitable foundations, intersex activist). There are people in SA, as well as other people with DSDs, in a lot worse position than she is (and a lot worse off financially).

It really couldn’t be clearer. I presume people are trolling now, no one could be this obtuse.

Yes but it doesn't confirm what she has. It's guesses based on the process of proceedings. From my understanding, the public don't have this information so we are basically speculating based on what we know about related conditions. Like whether she is XY or XX

or you can’t comprehend it properly.

I don’t want to be rude, but it is clear some posters here don’t understand the specific condition and what it actually means, how it affects puberty and therefore the body. Go and read up.

Where does it talk specifically about her body though? Rather than the spectrum of what can be found with this condition?

What are you asking here? I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Do you not understand the specifics and what they mean? I highlighted earlier the relevant point.

The document isn't clear on its conclusions

Then you haven’t read it properly or you can’t comprehend it properly.

Read page 123, section C onwards entitled:

The factual and scientific issues in this case

Where does it talk specifically about her body though? Rather than the spectrum of what can be found with this condition?

“The DSD covered by the Regulations are limited to athletes with ’46 XY DSD’ – i.e. conditions where the affected individual has XY chromosomes.” If she wasn’t XY, the IAAF’s regulations wouldn’t apply to her and she’d have no reason to challenge them.

People around her, her advisors, the IAAF and herself have also categorically known that since at least 2008, when she would have been 18/19, and the suspicion, at least, would have been there since puberty by 15/16.

^ this is important

And I can't find the concrete evidence CS herself, that says
CS is definitely this, or that. With photographs/medical evidence to back it up.

Nobody needs photographs! The ruling refers to what grounds Caster appealed on and they could only do that if they had the condition outlined in the ruling. So it is clear.

Boom it’s rife on other threads about Caster and people on this thread are refusing to use the female pronoun, using ‘them’ instead.

Oh come on, nobody on this thread or any others is calling her a he. And if they want to call a biological male them or they on an anonymous internet forum and not to her face, then so be it, that is biological fact.

She categorically is biologically male with XY chromosomes, with no ovaries or uterus (carry a baby? fgs!). She categorically did go through some form of male puberty, as can be seen from her published natural testosterone levels, which medically can only have come from secondary sexual tissues post puberty. The only other sources of testosterone in an XY human are from the brain or a tumour and neither would allow for anything like approcaching natural male testosterone levels, which is what CS has. Trying to pretend she has the one DSD, out of many, where it could be argued that a genetic XY person had not in any way benefitted of geen influenced by the male hormone testosterone (CAIS) si factually wrong. She is genetically male with a body that responds to near male levels of testosterone (and certainly way, way higher that the highest naturally occurring levels in any XX woman, even the butchest of butch), as is a feature of the DSD she has - 5 alpha reductase defficiency.

People around her, her advisors, the IAAF and herself have also categorically known that since at least 2008, when she would have been 18/19, and the suspicion, at least, would have been there since puberty by 15/16.

A pp:

"it seems pretty clear that she"

I'm sorry but I don't find it clear.
The document isn't clear on its conclusions.

And I can't find the concrete evidence CS herself, that says
CS is definitely this, or that. With photographs/medical evidence to back it up.

Mostly it's just speculation and heresay.

There are 2 different issues here. The court case / document on CS is long and complex.

And isn't clear, on CS specifically .

And what about the bigger picture, not just CS, but the rules, re other athletes?

I'm getting confused. Yes admittedly I mainly scanned the pages a pp listed.

It says that previous was found "to be discriminatory". So that's not good!

So what is the end result? In plain speak? Are we any further forward?

The whole Caster situation is a massive case study in just how much the general public can be hoodwinked when vested organisations, individuals and the MSM collude to push a particular narrative. In this particular case the motive for that is money and glory.

Greeve read the ruling. All the “confirmation” you’re seeking is in there.

The ruling relates to XY DSD athletes who are androgen sensitive.

For those insisting we don’t know about physical traits, all the details etc do any of you actually understand what the above means?? At all??

which has given her a largely female appearance

No it hasn’t. Elaborate on what you think gives her a ‘female appearance’.

Actually the article was quite anti her competing but obviously they had to be factual so they had to say what was and what wasn't confirmed.

What I read said that the only Male trait that was shown was the increase in testosterone and there has been no comment or confirmation on any other physical traits. Although internal testis are a source of testosterone in people with DSD, there is no conformation that this is the source in CS and there can be other sources too.

I find it really irritating to have people on this thread dispute facts that have been known for some time- by Caster for at least 10 years.

Caster is not a woman with a medical condition. We are aware of exactly what condition they have. They are not female. These are facts.

I read something the other day which said she can conceive and carry a child so to me, she's a woman

Did you read this in Donald Trump’s Big Book of Biological Fake News?

I read something the other day which said she can conceive and carry a child so to me, she's a woman.

What the hell are you talking about? Caster has no female organs, it’s literally impossible. Did you not read the ruling? Fgs

As I've said, it seems pretty clear that she has a DSD which has given her a largely female appearance. Most DSDs of that type would make her insensitive to "male hormones", so many of the concerns here don't arise.

The ruling relates to XY DSD athletes who are androgen sensitive. This includes Caster.

You are referring to CAIS; XY athletes competing as women are exempt because they are not androgen sensitive. This is not Caster because if it was the elevated testosterone would not need to be lowered.

I’m not sure if you’re being deliberately disingenuous in fixating on the single XY DSD that is exempt from the testosterone ruling or whether you’ve not read the ruling and are just making up things to fit your own narrative.

I read something the other day which said she can conceive and carry a child so to me, she's a woman.

With no female reproductive organs? How do you think that would be possible?