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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What are the top three issues that feminists should unite to conquer?

61 replies

ControversialFerret · 18/06/2019 19:28

Asking for genuine thoughts and feedback. Disclaimer - not a journo but this is linked to some work I'm doing in the background on a voluntary basis. I'm not sharing further details (for obvious reasons!) but if anyone has concerns or questions, please PM me.

Feminism is so fragmented in terms of grass roots organisation - group A disagrees with group B and so on. However we know there will always be differences of opinion in activism and causes.

But if you had the chance to unify every feminist (and ally) in the UK behind three key causes/topics, what would they be and why?

OP posts:
wheresmymojo · 19/06/2019 17:00

Violence and sexual violence against women and children

Equal representation in Government, institutions and business (because this would naturally solve a lot of other problems)

FlapsMagazine · 19/06/2019 16:36

While I think Barracker hit the nail on the head earlier, I'd like to add one additional item to this great thread, namely 'Risk of Future Harm' being used, normally against women, very often against women who have experienced previous abuse, to take their kids away.

It's awful and often shrouded in secrecy, meaning that the women accused of this often have little resources to fight it.

Of course this is quite specific, but thought it warranted a mention along side the misdiagnosis of various mental health conditions mentioned here.

ControversialFerret · 19/06/2019 16:06

What would you say the key is to addressing poverty which affects women and girls @WhatTheWatersShowedMe?

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WhatTheWatersShowedMe · 19/06/2019 12:35

For me :

  1. A universal declaration of women and girls' sex based rights
  2. An end to the sexual and child-bearing exploitation of women (porn, prostitution, surrogacy)
  3. Poverty.
ControversialFerret · 19/06/2019 08:25

Men cannot be feminists. They can be allies, but you can't be a member of a collective fighting against oppression, when you are also a member of that oppressing class. Feminism is the recognition that women and girls are treated differently because of their sex - and to truly know that, you need to be female to be a feminist.

Ooohhh the arguments I've had about that!

Thank you to everyone for their input so far. I'm going to be fairly quiet today as I have loads of stuff to do, but will hopefully be back on this evening.

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S1naidSucks · 18/06/2019 23:51

1: Everything Barracker has said.

  1. Better sex education in school, that teaches children that they have the right to say NO to sex and pornified sex. Boys educated to respect females and allow them body autonomy.
  1. Campaign for women in NI to have the same rights to abortion services as those in the rest of the UK.
Barracker · 18/06/2019 23:44

Barracker - do you mind if I paraphrase what you've said? I have a meeting this week with an amazing feminist warrior lady and I think this argument articulates everything that we're currently struggling with!

You go right ahead. I'm 1.5 glasses of red wine down and not getting more articulate.

"If you treasure it, measure it"

We currently have no un-corrupted way of measuring sex inequality, because we stopped capturing sex in 2004, and started assuming women's 'gender' instead.

If it's mutable administratively upon request, and without empirical corroboration?
It's gender, not sex.
No matter what label it wears.

How do you measure inequality between females and males?
You have to have data.
What does the data currently capture?
Not Sex.
Passport? Gender
Driving licence? Gender
Public toilets? Gender
Sports? Gender
BIRTH CERTIFICATES? Can you change them from M2F or F2M upon meeting arbitrary conditions, whilst still remaining the sex you were born?
Yup.
Gender.

What we did, in 2004, is we said, legally, female and male are genders now, not sexes, because you can choose which one you want to be recorded as officially, despite empirical evidence showing you are the other sex. Criteria may apply, blah blah.

And in order to facilitate the lie of the century, we had to ASSUME that 49% of the population had a 'gender' of male (that matched their sex) and 51% of the population had a 'gender' of female (to match their sex) so that less than 1% of the population could claim to have a 'gender' that didn't match their sex, and which was going to supercede their sex, legally and officially.

So yeah.

Even if we think we are capturing sex based data at a population level, we categorically aren't.
We've been capturing 'gender' from that day forward, as if it was a real thing.

Without definitions, everything is smoke and mirrors, and obfuscation and misdirection.
Without recognising reality in law, we are deliberately ignoring reality.

You show me a right that women currently have.
I'll show you how it's no longer a woman's right, and how it can't be effectively enforced.

(I'm now two glasses in, and I told you I wouldn't get more articulate. or concise)

TLDR:

  1. Recognise it
  2. Define it
  3. Measure it
  4. Fight for it.
SittingAround1 · 18/06/2019 23:02

Internationally :
Ending female genital mutilation
Access to education for all girls
Free contraception, maternity medical care and access to abortions

In Britain :
Rape conviction rate
Improved post natal care including long term medical care for related problems, birth injuries etc.
Porn / prostitution - men not seeing women as objects to please them.

Lastly reducing male violence everywhere.

twicemummy1 · 18/06/2019 22:51

@Amalfimamma
Ugh "male feminists". Somebody asked me earlier if I thought all men had sinister designs on women's spaces, and if all men were steely misogynists.
I said no, but what I've come to learn is that transwomen and male feminists tend to be more misogynistic than your average bloke. In other words, misogynists gravitate towards trans activism or set themselves up as feminist icons

Amalfimamma · 18/06/2019 22:44
  1. biological fact and reality. Just because you feel like a woman doesn't equate you in anyway shape or form (and if a tw declares they have periods and can get pregnant (as has happened), women should be legally allowed to laugh in their faces for 6ontha straight)

  2. men are not feminists and anyone who centers men in their feminism, cannot be a feminism. Feminism cannot have male "leaders"

3),compulsory wage and health insurance for sahm and fines (wage x years working for the business x years expected to work before pension) for any firm which sack women because they are pregnant or have kids to be given tax free to the woman

They are many issues but the core issues IMHO centre around sex ased discrimination

nettie434 · 18/06/2019 22:43

Like other posters, I'd have a different UK/international list. In the UK, I'd go for women's mental health, better support for family carers (which would largely but not exclusively benefit women), and cheaper child care like in Scandinavia.

Internationally, education for girls, micro financing (benefits women more) and more efforts to reform criminal justice system to increase investigations into crimes against women and harsher sentencing for crimes against women

OvaHere · 18/06/2019 21:56

I. The retention of sex based rights (see Barrackers post)

  1. Pornography and the increasingly sexualised world young girls are having to navigate growing up. I believe this is the cause of a lot of mental health issues in teenage girls.
  1. Surrogacy. It's very clear that this is the next assault on women in the UK. There is a considerable lobby at work (with some crossover to those who want to remove sex based rights) to move towards a commercialised model of surrogacy similar to the US. In line with many European countries I would like surrogacy banned outright.
Earlywalker · 18/06/2019 21:46

(Referring to the UK, rather than worldwide)

  1. Woman’s healthcare to be taken seriously and improved, it is massively behind other sections and woman are left to ‘deal with it’ when comparable situations would be dealt with pretty swiftly.
  1. Improve conviction rates for rapists and abusers as well as hidden abusers. Coersive control only recently was even accepted as a crime and even now the conviction rates are awful for something that has such devastation effects.
  2. Better financial support for woman. Universal credit et all is affecting woman more than anyone. High childcare costs with little assistance in getting back into the workforce is driving woman out and leaving them destitute.
meditrina · 18/06/2019 21:27

If it's UK only, then the first aim should be to be the (metaphorical, Clintonesque) Boss, and to use the resources of this rich and powerful country to make a difference to reduce global inequalities.

Because the rich should shoulder the burden, and the powerful should show leadership, otherwise the inequalities on the planet go unchallenged and therefore unsolved.

Gingerkittykat · 18/06/2019 21:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RoyalCorgi · 18/06/2019 21:16

I think if this is UK only, then it has to be doing something about the scale of violence, including sexual violence, against women and girls. It's just a huge problem, and not an easy one to tackle. You'd need a complete overhaul of the justice system for a start.

Obviously related to that is what Barracker says about recognition of women as a sex class. You can't tackle the first problem while undermining women's safety by allowing men into women's spaces.

The third would be something to do with guaranteeing women's economic independence so that women with children don't become financial dependent on a partner who may be abusive or, if they're single mothers, reliant on handouts for the state. It's that lack of economic independence that makes so many women's lives utterly miserable.

twicemummy1 · 18/06/2019 21:15
  1. Surrogacy;

  2. Forced adoption ( by which I mean focusing on removing batterers from the home rather than the kids; financially and emotionally supporting mothers with baby/ child removal being an absolute last resort)

  3. Ending pornography

Victoriapestis01 · 18/06/2019 21:01
  1. The pornification of sexuality, and the pressure on young women to behave in a way expected from pornography - which is associated with the normalisation of stereotypically ‘feminine’ behaviour.
.
  1. The breaking down of women’s sex based rights- single sex spaces, sports, prisons, etc- in order to allow men to access them, and the loss of our rights to single sex privacy, dignity, and boundaries.
  1. The burden of unpaid domestic work done by women- the fact that in most relationships, as well as working in paid employment, we’re still expected to bear the brunt of cleaning, childcare, domestic organisation and emotional labour.

Obviously these reflect the Western experience.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 18/06/2019 20:59

Stop diagnosing (mostly) women with a serious trauma history with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) or the even more dehumanising term Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (EUPD) and then deny them treatment based on this label.

Oh yes, 1000x this one! My friends bipolar disorder went undiagnosed for years because her psychiatrists refused to accept that she didn't have borderline/eupd. And her treatment by almost every service on the basis of that diagnosis was unbelievable.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 18/06/2019 20:55

In America if you don't pay your child maintenance they can take your car I think.

DpWm · 18/06/2019 20:55
  1. Prostitution.
  2. Killing/aborting babies purely because they are female.
  3. Ring fencing women only spaces and rights so they are for women only.
Gingerkittykat · 18/06/2019 20:54

In the UK my top 3 would be.

1 Improve the conviction rates for rape and abuse, I think I read on here that the rate for rape convictions was 1.7% so almost legal.

2 Stop diagnosing (mostly) women with a serious trauma history with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) or the even more dehumanising term Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (EUPD) and then deny them treatment based on this label. Recognise they are suffering the normal after effects of trauma and support them accordingly. Complex PTSD has no proper treatment guidelines in this country and was only recognised as a valid disorder by the WHO in June 2018.

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/complex-ptsd/

This is what can happen, where a woman with the BPD label is not properly supported.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45117163

3 Fighting to maintain the rights of biological women and girls based on sex and not gender. This includes single sex toilets, changing rooms, prisons, hospitals and refuges. Some trans identifying people are not even bothered to change their outward appearance any more so you have fully intact men with beards claiming to be female and demanding access to female space.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 18/06/2019 20:52
  1. The right to legal recognition of the female biological sex class and the mandatory enforcement of all single sex spaces with NO exceptions.
  2. A complete overhaul of the way rape cases are investigated, processed, and prosecuted. Rape is basically legal in this country, it's completely disgraceful.
  3. A serious and concerted effort to liberate women from prostitution, including a guaranteed minimum income for all, an overhaul of the benefits system, a practical exit strategy for prostituted women, and a widespread social/educational campaign about the harm of prostitution to women (and society as a whole)
ControversialFerret · 18/06/2019 20:45

The payment of child maintenance to be enforced properly.

How would we do it? Again, genuine question. I think it's a bloody brilliant (and necessary) idea, but how do you think we should enforce it?

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nonsenceagain · 18/06/2019 20:43

What barracked said and abortion/contraception which is free, safe and on demand,

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